tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post2428865417222277948..comments2024-02-20T15:17:48.594+11:00Comments on A.E.Brain: Hate, Life, the Universe, and EverythingZoe Brainhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-22322834963773159482007-12-15T03:24:00.000+11:002007-12-15T03:24:00.000+11:00I object to the concept of a protected class. Peop...I object to the concept of a protected class. People are people and crime is crime. I should say that I am biased towards the concept of having laws as simple and understandable as possible (but not simpler). I consider hate crime laws to be "we have to do... something" laws because they seem to have the goal of appeasing those who want something/anything done and the goal of criminalizing things that are already crimes. What real value does the idea of protected classes bring? Deterrent? Symbolic acceptance? Something else?<BR/><BR/>People seem to think that the possibility of being charged with a hate crime might serve as a deterrent. The murderer of Matthew Shepherd committed a crime that made him eligible to be executed and I doubt the thought of an added hate crime charge would have deterred him.<BR/><BR/>While I can see the appeal of seeing hate crime laws as symbolic acceptance... But it seems like an odd definition of acceptance to have one group not profess acceptance but to define themselves (or others) as less worthy than the protected group. Violence against unprotected group = x punishment, violence against protected group = x+y punishment. <BR/><BR/>re: murder rate and conviction rate. Is not a TS more likely to be involved in drugs, prostitution (certainly high risk behavior), have mental illness (possibility of suicide by murder or psychotic behavior) and be socially estranged (lack of family or friends lead to a lack of pressure on officials and a lack of information/clues about the victim. Also could lead to physical poverty & a bad neighborhood)? I'm certainly not claiming hate is not an issue just that TS are a troubled group. (which I base on my own slight experience with TS and comments, i think, you have made. Please correct me if I am wrong or overstating)<BR/><BR/>I've thrown a lot out to you so take your time but I look forward to your response and an interesting dialogue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-51155540319803555262007-12-14T09:06:00.000+11:002007-12-14T09:06:00.000+11:00Once again, thanks very much M for exactly the kin...Once again, thanks very much M for exactly the kind of comment I most appreciate. I don't have a direct source of Truth, I have been known to be wrong. My views should always be tested.<BR/><BR/>I'll try to answer your points in detail later, you've raised many issues that should be addressed separately. Ignoring them won't make them go away.Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-16362708575026829672007-12-14T08:59:00.000+11:002007-12-14T08:59:00.000+11:00M, thanks for your comment. It's one thing to have...M, thanks for your comment. It's one thing to have a cheering squad, another to be challenged in order to test the correctness of what I said.<BR/><BR/>The facts are, as near as we can gather, that someone who is TS is 17 times as likely to be murdered than the equivalent who is not. Young Urban Black Males in the US are just over 3 times more likely to be murdered than the average, they're the next highest minority.<BR/><BR/>The results for other assaults are not as firm, the murder metric is the only one we have that is reliable. It would be reasonable to assume that the rates of assault generally would be significantly higher than average though. What rubbery and unreliable figures we have are consistent with this.<BR/><BR/>We also know that approximately 30% of the murders have their cases closed, though not necessarily resulting in a conviction. This is also way less than the average, and indicates a systemic problem with allocation of resources to the investigation.<BR/><BR/>I wouldn't be at all surprised if these statistics were similar to those for people of colour in Alabama in the early 60's.<BR/><BR/>There are 2 elements to a "hate crime". The act of violence itself, and note that words alone cannot be violent, only battery counts, not assault. Then there's the act of intimidation, terrorism if you like against the whole class that the victim belongs to.<BR/><BR/>Unless the act can be shown to be reasonably construed as having the effect of assaulting (ie intimidating) a whole protected class, it's not a hate crime.<BR/><BR/>Now there are good arguments to say that existing Hate Crime legislation for other protected classes is flawed, and a better way exists. That is another argument. <BR/><BR/>But I think that the argument that people who are TS should be a protected class is unimpeachable. Just look at the statistics for crimes of violence against them vs crimes vs existing protected classes.<BR/><BR/>Regarding your hypothetical, and the cover-up, you're quite correct. But if statistics are kept, a systemic problem like that would possibly be detected. Without such statistics, the chances of it being found out are virtually nil. To me, having resources allocated at the Federal level to collect such statistics is possibly the most important element here.Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-91829967246261164802007-12-14T02:31:00.000+11:002007-12-14T02:31:00.000+11:00one more comment. Would the act really give you "s...one more comment. Would the act really give you "some protection" from violence? I doubt it provides for Kryptonian DNA. If you meant protection from the injustice of a crime being ignored then I must point out that wouldn't the local officials be the ones referring cases to the Feds? Couldn't a local official, of whom we are already assuming malice, quickly declare a murder victim an unknown indigent who died of natural causes and have the body cremated?<BR/><BR/>cynically,<BR/>MAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-39984076978764043772007-12-14T02:01:00.000+11:002007-12-14T02:01:00.000+11:00...give some protection in the USA to such as I fr...<I>...give some protection in the USA to such as I from being tortured, raped, and murdered without bigoted local law enforcement ignoring it. As happens.</I><BR/><BR/>The linked story is unsourced (or i missed it). I am cynical. Assuming the linked story is true it does say that arrests were made by county officials. In the Matthew Shepard case arrests were also made and convictions made. A crime is a crime is a crime. Why should a hate crime be a federal offense? Is there not already Civil rights issues that can bring Federal intervention? Is <B>trying</B> to bypass idiocy better than punishing the incompetence of an official who would ignore a crime?<BR/><BR/>If, in 1995, I referred to a transsexuals as "freaks" and in 2007 get into a fight with a TS could it be construed as a hate crime? What if the TS claims I slurred him during a fight but I have no witnesses? What I didn't realize he was a TS but did call him a "pansy" during the fight because I was being mean? If a TS mocks my teeny tiny, little Y chromosome during the fight has the TS committed a hate crime (my chromosomes are in fact small)?<BR/><BR/>Personally I classify it as "OMG we have to do... something" legislation adding complexity to laws without considering the consequence. I think a crime is a crime is a crime. <BR/><BR/>(also, if you don't mind, how would you expand/change practical gender classifications (ie census, govt forms, etc) beyond M/F? add a T? add other letters? add a M or F with a footnote? based upon self-reporting, chromosomes, physical characteristics, a combination?)<BR/><BR/>thank you,<BR/>MAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-7667509577500433332007-12-13T03:37:00.000+11:002007-12-13T03:37:00.000+11:00Hate is not inevitable--I can tell because I don't...Hate is not inevitable--I can tell because <I>I</I> don't hate anyone. The fact that other people don't achieve my level of enlightenment doesn't mean they couldn't, just that they need to be beaten with a stick ... er ... educated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com