tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post5277359600576673225..comments2024-02-20T15:17:48.594+11:00Comments on A.E.Brain: Hormonal contributions to sexually dimorphic behavioral development in humansZoe Brainhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-33801673108517567512013-08-02T07:06:46.409+10:002013-08-02T07:06:46.409+10:00"Overall, it appears that prenatal exposure t..."Overall, it appears that prenatal exposure to androgen-based synthetic progestin exerted a masculinizing and/or defeminizing influence on human behavioral development, whereas prenatal exposure to natural progesterone and progesterone-based synthetic progestin had a feminizing and/or demasculinizing influence, particularly among female subjects. The data on prenatal exposure to synthetic estrogen derive primarily from subjects exposed to diethylstilbestrol (DES). DES-exposed male subjects appeared to be feminized and/or demasculinized, and there is some evidence that exposed female subjects were masculinized."<br /><br />I'll tell you what these drugs do. Estrogens and progestins are both artificial female hormones. They have relatively modest effects in women (who naturally have high levels of female hormones). Both are completely alien to the male body though, and in quite modest doses (well below those commonly used for medical treatment in women), they completely shut down a man's testosterone production. I think exactly the same happens to a male fetus exposed to these drugs when his mother is given medical treatment with them during pregnancy.<br /><br />The estrogen DES was for many years used to chemically castrate prostate cancer patients, a dose of 3mg per day being sufficient to completely shut down testosterone production. The starting dose of DES as a miscarriage treatment was 5mg per day! <br /><br />Two progestins that were commonly used for miscarriage prevention during the DES era (often alongside DES) are norethisterone acetate and hydroxyprogesterone caproate. Norethisterone acetate was eventually dropped because it's actually a derivative of testosterone not progesterone, and was found to have masculinising effects on female fetuses. It was often used in conjunction with DES, and I think probably that's where the confusion about female subjects being masculinised while male subjects were feminised has come from. <br /><br />Hydroxyprogesterone caproate continues to be used to this day, at doses that certainly look like they'd adversely affect male hormone production. The standard dose for miscarriage prevention is 250mg or 500mg per week. This same drug in the same form can also be used by mtf transsexuals to provide a progestin component to their HRT, only there the dosage would normally be one of the 250mg intramuscular injections every 2 weeks! (i.e. 1/2 to 1/4 the dose!).<br /><br />Just to give you an idea of how high these doses are in relation to what will shut down testosterone production in adult men, the drug most commonly used to chemically castrate sex offenders is Depo Provera, an injectible form of the progestin medroxyprogesterone acetate. Apparently just one of the injections (each of which contain 150mg of MPA) every 3 months is enough to do the job, although normally they double up the dose just to make sure!<br /><br />Today, hormonal treatment for prevention of miscarriage doesn't normally start until 16 weeks or more after conception, which is after development of the genitals and reproductive organs has already completed (but around the time sexually dimorphic brain development starts). The result, I think, is that you typically end up with a physically normal male baby with an incompletely masculinised brain. <br /><br />DES was often started quite a bit earlier in the pregnancy, which explains why a high percentage of DES sons seem to have genital abnormalities (particularly undescended testes and a shorter than normal penis). <br /><br />With all these treatments, testosterone production is suppressed during the 2nd and 3rd trimester, which is when most sexually dimorphic brain development takes place. The result is that that person may look male, but their brain has largely or completely developed as female, and they're obviously at high risk of identifying as a woman later in life! I think that if the truth were known, medical hormone use in pregnancy is likely responsible for many if not most cases of gender variance and transsexuality. What do you think?<br /><br />Hugh EastonHughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11023840719337673405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-41677665503366486002011-07-11T03:40:05.146+10:002011-07-11T03:40:05.146+10:00Omg. 20 years. If 20 years weren't enough?Omg. 20 years. If 20 years weren't enough?Bad hair dayshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02074719911527566883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-43037247037298159222011-07-11T03:21:26.689+10:002011-07-11T03:21:26.689+10:00Hi Sarah.
What an interesting link...
As regards...Hi Sarah.<br /><br />What an <a href="http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=BmJOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=U0sDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3742%2C5111526&hl=en" rel="nofollow">interesting link</a>...<br /><br />As regards exposure to DES - <a href="http://aebrain.blogspot.com/2006/04/diethylstilbestrol-in-dock.html" rel="nofollow">I checked</a> as far back as April 2006.<br /><br /><i>Oh yes - despite the fact that DES was commonly used in the UK in 1957 as an anti-abortifacient, and I was born in early 1958, my mother didn't take it. No, whatever caused my condition, DES is not guilty.</i><br /><br />One of the first things I looked at, and one of the first to be eliminated.<br /><br />Thanks for the kind words. I go where the evidence takes me, that's all. I'm sorry to have caused you pain - but that, I hope, will accelerate healing. You deserve as much help there as I can give. More.<br /><br />Bad Hair Days - look at the date of this article. 1991. This has been known about for some time, just not as widely publicised as it should have been. A lot of the times, when I've independantly come to some conclusions based on the evidence before me, I find out that I've just re-invented the wheel.Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-89923867661865345902011-07-11T02:37:50.504+10:002011-07-11T02:37:50.504+10:00Zoe,
I greatly appreciate your sharing the inform...Zoe,<br /><br />I greatly appreciate your sharing the information on prenatal hormonal exposure with us and continuing to fight the good fight.<br /><br />While for me this reopens fresh emotional scars that are still healing, I still need to see this, and know the science behind it. I feel privileged in that in this I have what I believe an explanation for the genesis of my GID.<br /><br />I have a suspicion that at the time there was more known about DES than was being admitted to. Evidence the "news" from 1962.<br /><br />http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=BmJOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=U0sDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3742%2C5111526&hl=en<br /><br />Again, thank you for sharing. I can't help but wonder though. Do you suspect you may have been exposed to DES prenatally?Sarah Wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13018597739320720216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-63974114989784823372011-07-09T10:48:13.851+10:002011-07-09T10:48:13.851+10:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.armourishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17686418281176580121noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-5193735376929298642011-07-09T00:30:20.443+10:002011-07-09T00:30:20.443+10:00"Masculinity and femininity are no longer con..."Masculinity and femininity are no longer conceptualized as opposite ends of a single, unidimensional, bipolar continuum (Fig. 2a), but are now understood to be a multidimensional matrix of independent or semi-independent factors."<br /><br />Oh finally, someone has seen the light.Bad hair dayshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02074719911527566883noreply@blogger.com