tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post5562375462162216961..comments2024-02-20T15:17:48.594+11:00Comments on A.E.Brain: They've got form (Part II)Zoe Brainhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-14909522571764297482013-01-23T03:57:09.776+11:002013-01-23T03:57:09.776+11:00@ Zimbel.I live in Berlin. Every time I walk out t...@ Zimbel.I live in Berlin. Every time I walk out the door I pass by the reminders,the small brass cobblestone caps with the names of those dragged away, the small hardly noticable plaque in the graveyard up the road to the hundreds of local teenagers taken away by the russian,the marks of rifle bullets still on the sides of the canal. And like everyone who comes here, I wonder how all that came about.<br />If the dehumanisation that the nazis propagated hadn't happened, if old herr Goldstein hadn't become simply the jew goldstein, then maybe things might have been different. Holding that up to the dehumanisation as practiced by terfs doesn't seem so extreme to me, especially when it crosses my mind to wonder how long I, as a lesbian jewish trans woman, might have survived.Sophiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776623935042983118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-45315963432807000572013-01-23T02:06:37.738+11:002013-01-23T02:06:37.738+11:00Wait a second - The Telegraph reprinted the Birche...Wait a second - The Telegraph reprinted the Birchell piece and still has it up?<br /><br />I guess due to my unfamiliarity with the publications, I'd conflated that with The Observer. I'll contact them to ask them to take it down; if you have an alternate suggestion, I'm all ears.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-26834198729179387552013-01-23T01:43:54.374+11:002013-01-23T01:43:54.374+11:00@Zoe Brain-
Ah - I missed that. That said, my only...@Zoe Brain-<br />Ah - I missed that. That said, my only exposure to <i>Der Stürmer</i> was during an English class over two decades ago during a section about the Holocaust; I have no familiarity with <i>Der Stürmer</i> before the Holocaust, and very little within it. In other words, even if I had noted that you specifically mentioned the early 1930s or 1920s <i>Der Stürmer</i>, I would have made the association with the 1940s <i>Der Stürmer</i>, simply because that's all I'm familiar with.<br /><br />That stated, I see something very positive here. Here's the events that I've observed:<br />1) Moore wrote a piece with a Trans-insensitive comment.<br />2) Moore got pushback on that Trans-insensitive comment for the Trans-insensitivity - from a community broader than the Trans community.<br />3) Moore wrote back that she didn't like Trans.<br />4) Moore got even more pushback.<br />5) Birchell tried to "defend" Moore (i.e. attack Trans) by writing a Trans dehumanization article.<br />6) The editors of The Observer, showed extreme Trans insensitivity (or possibly Trans hatred?) in publishing the Birchell article.<br />7) The Guardian online and The Observer get pushback, again not just from the Trans community.<br />8) The Guardian online withdraws the article, proclaiming that it was Trans-insensitive in less than 2 days.<br />9) The Observer makes a half-hearted apology for the publication within a week, and suggests that it will try to be less Trans-insensitive in the future.<br /><br />What I see that's positive is the pushback from a wider community and the withdrawing and partial apologies. This is exactly analogous to what happens in the early stages of Black acceptance in the U.S.A. as documented by, for example, Lowen's <b>Sundown Towns</b>.<br /><br />The important thing is to keep it up; partial acceptance can backslide.<br /><br />The Observer should be able to automatically search any submissions for likely insensitive terms. I think it would be very easy to add the most common Trans-insensitive terms for further review.<br /><br />Perhaps I will suggest that to them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-5000749597900041452013-01-22T11:25:35.479+11:002013-01-22T11:25:35.479+11:00Jody wrote:
Zoe has no idea about fighting for rig...Jody wrote:<br /><i>Zoe has no idea about fighting for rights. What we have is a bias veiw of propaganda. How about putting your time where the real problems are?</i><br /><br />If I were to do that, I'd have to publish articles like <a href="http://aebrain.blogspot.com.au/2011/01/putting-veil-on-egypt.html" rel="nofollow">this</a>, <a href="http://aebrain.blogspot.com.au/2011/03/janes-bond.html" rel="nofollow">this</a>, or <a href="http://aebrain.blogspot.com.au/2010/05/segregation-and-space.html" rel="nofollow">this</a>.Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-9632441350041432232013-01-22T11:13:19.753+11:002013-01-22T11:13:19.753+11:00Zimbel - I specifically made mention of Der Sturme...Zimbel - I specifically made mention of <i>Der Sturmer</i> during the Weimar Republic. Before 1933.<br /><br />A time when Germany was a Democracy.Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-60231359054207610632013-01-22T10:15:07.472+11:002013-01-22T10:15:07.472+11:00@Zoe Brain-
I'm afraid that I have to disagre...@Zoe Brain-<br /><br />I'm afraid that I have to disagree with you. The simplest reason not to compare modern things to the Third Reich is that if something is really that bad, one should be able to articulate how bad it is without reference to the Third Reich.<br /><br />When you refer to <i>Der Stürmer</i>'s articles on Jews, I'm assuming that you're referring to some of the infamous articles in the early 1940s that encouraged the dehumanization and/or demanded the extermination of Jews.<br /><br /><i>Der Stürmer</i> was an official organ of the governing party of Germany. It was a central piece of the Nazi propaganda machine. Those pieces were written in the mist of the Holocaust, in which millions of Jews were killed, in Germany by the Nazi party for the purpose of making it easier to kill those Jews.<br /><br />If the Observer and/or The Guardian enjoys this sort of status (of a ruling party's official organ), I'm unaware of it. If there is an anti-Trans genocide going on in the U.K., I'd appreciate it if you let me know.<br /><br />Is this a dehumanization article? Yes, it is. Is dehumanization a prelude to genocide in every case that I'm aware of? Yes, it is.<br /><br />That said, the fact that The Guardian (online? I'm not certain of their corporate structure) felt compelled to retract it online in what appears to be less than 2 days is good. The fact that The Observer decided to state that they felt that publishing it was wrong in under a week is good. The fact that the Moore piece itself was attacked on Transphobic terms is very good.<br /><br />All of these are symptoms that the attempted dehumanization failed. That said, The Guardian/The Observer should clean up their act; there is no excuse for them to have gotten this wrong in the first place. If there's any way in which I can assist in that, let me know.<br /><br />Just don't ask me to compare them or this article to pieces in the organ of once of the worst crime against humanity in the past century. There are large differences in power, effect, and response, even if some of the terms used are similar.Zimbelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01224034209171496275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-43050155318451574272013-01-22T09:11:49.954+11:002013-01-22T09:11:49.954+11:00@Jody-
I don't see a conflict.
I'm a fem...@Jody-<br /><br />I don't see a conflict.<br /><br />I'm a feminist.<br /><br />I have done a small amount of work for Trans rights.<br /><br />That said, if you want to concentrate on Women's rights more than Trans rights, please go ahead.<br /><br />As a personal example, I have worked far more on Women's rights than Trans rights; I've been a Feminist for over two decades, but I have only been working on Trans issues for a few years.<br /><br />However, I don't see a point in suggesting that someone who chooses the inverse should do something different; indeed, I tend to use such people for their developed ideas to increase the efficacy of my fairly small amount of time spent on activism.<br /><br />Just as I, say, use Zoe Brain to maximize the efficacy of my fairly small amount of time spent on pro-Intrasexual (or, to a lesser degree pro-Trans) activism.Zimbelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01224034209171496275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-6177063577140652122013-01-22T08:11:36.230+11:002013-01-22T08:11:36.230+11:00“and just where would you have Zoe put her efforts...“and just where would you have Zoe put her efforts”<br />===============<br />I would spend my time dealing with human survival rather than sexual gender roles. If you believe in equality you start with the largest number of oppressed not the smallest fraction you happen to favor.<br /><br />I am a trans person and do not want or need special rights or protection. I would like to see equality among the genders first before race or medical conditions are put on top.<br /><br />The world is killing many more than the weak stand of trans people. Most trans people ask for trouble and refuse to give any to traditional cultures. I have never felt at a disadvantage even in a bigoted culture.<br /><br />JodyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-36883642967967845202013-01-22T06:47:21.203+11:002013-01-22T06:47:21.203+11:00@Jody:
... and just where would you have Zoe put ...@Jody:<br /><br />... and just where would you have Zoe put her efforts if not into the areas which affect her and others of similar background directly?<br /><br />I hate to point this out, but the fight for rights as a trans person is more than just a fight for rights - it's a battle against erasure in the discourse of our civilizations. I cannot imagine a more legitimate fight if there ever was one.<br /><br />MgShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11183962674882855323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-57291744702319598032013-01-22T02:15:56.469+11:002013-01-22T02:15:56.469+11:00"See what I mean? Godwin's law isn't ..."See what I mean? Godwin's law isn't violated when the parallels are so exact."<br />===================<br />"Girls are the largest marginalised group in the world," said Mr Chapman.<br />============================<br />Zoe has no idea about fighting for rights. What we have is a bias veiw of propaganda. How about putting your time where the real problems are?<br /><br />Jody Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-59753922436185800602013-01-22T00:59:19.354+11:002013-01-22T00:59:19.354+11:00Well, I did just compare Burchill's article to...Well, I did just compare Burchill's article to some of the pieces in <i>Der Sturmer</i>, magazine of the NSDAP.<br /><br />You'll find it <a href="http://discussion.guardian.co.uk/comment-permalink/20759512" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br /><br />Excerpt:<br /><br /><i>Burchill's piece is another matter. Dennis Showalter in "Little Man, what Now? Der Sturmer in the Weimar Republic" wrote:<br /><br />--- "a major challenge of political anti-Semitism involves overcoming the images of the 'Jew next door' — the living, breathing acquaintance or associate whose simple existence appears to deny the validity of that negative stereotype." ---<br /><br />Articles like Juliet Jacques' very human and personal account reinforce the "Transwoman next door" image, leading people to see them as, well, human.<br /><br />If any such group is to be "morally mandated out of existence" (in pure self-defence of course), it's vital that this idea be attacked, using the lowest, vilest caricatures, be it the "greasy hook-nosed Yid" or the "Dick in chick's clothing", the "decadent intellectual Kike" or the " Educated beyond all common sense and honesty Tranny".<br /><br />See what I mean? Godwin's law isn't violated when the parallels are so exact.</i><br /><br />I think that's both measured, and might just set the feline amongst the avians.Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-89638071766072229002013-01-21T23:12:54.892+11:002013-01-21T23:12:54.892+11:00One context that it's important to have for an...One context that it's important to have for anyone outside the UK is the general business strategy of the guardian/observer. Owned by a long term trust, they've spent the last few years attempting to become a significant digital force,far more so than other papers, losing considerable amounts of money in the process. As the only major left wing (UK terms) paper in the UK they've long had a number of women with second wave feminist leanings as columnists, many of whom, Greer and Bindel outstandingly , have solid anti-trans credentials. <br />Probably in the normal course of events these would have been gradually ushered out of publication. But they're kept on simply because they generate a lot of heat,and a lot of comments, which add to the guardian's internet footprint. Additionally the guardian has a large number of female readers with a somewhat sentimental attachment to greer et al. So whilst they are 'serious' papers, guardian and observer presently have some of the characteristics of a scandal sheet in terms of weight given to 'controversial topics'.<br />To be frank I'm not sure that trans responses to these affairs are necessarily the most helpful. Pieces by Roz, Paris, Jane etc have been articulate and well reasoned and not attracted that much comment simply because they made a great deal of good sense. But if trans women really want to take their place at the media/feminist table, then perhaps it's more desirable to try and offer the same sort of controversial stuff by rather more aggressively targeting arguments and spokeswomen for old style rad fem dogma.Sophiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08776623935042983118noreply@blogger.com