tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post6632019132403830842..comments2024-02-20T15:17:48.594+11:00Comments on A.E.Brain: They've Lost Their WayZoe Brainhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-35203063942744794762009-12-10T02:30:32.137+11:002009-12-10T02:30:32.137+11:00>laserlight - "reasonable christians"...>laserlight - "reasonable christians" are far too apathetic for us to care what they think. <br /><br />This is why I said "acquiescence" rather than "cooperation." <br /><br />I'll point out, though...do you know why I'm openminded to TS/IS? It's purely because I knew you pre-transition and I knew you were honest and functional.<br />I've known TS person previously, on a mailing list, and Fleur was worse than John Atkinson ever was about irrational hair-trigger flaming. And yeah, *now* I know why and can sympathize, but back then I didn't know and didn't have reason to care. And if the only TS/IS people I'd met had been a couple other people here, I might not be actively opposed, but I sure wouldn't be motivated to help. <br /><br />:-\ If I'm responsible for 100% from my end, then it looks like I need to get off my butt and do more. I'll email you on that tonight.LLnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-57056615695287896822009-12-09T22:23:12.127+11:002009-12-09T22:23:12.127+11:00laserlight - "reasonable christians" are...laserlight - "reasonable christians" are far too apathetic for us to care what they think. Getting them onside is completely unimportant.<br /><br />If they won't protest against what's happening in Uganda, if there's no action other than unctious "tut tut"ing when an abortionist is shot on the steps of a church, then they're as impotent as the UN.<br /><br />Those that have - and exercise - the real power are the megachurches and the fanatics. Who get much of their funding by making people like me into scapegoats and making us out to be threats. They can't possibly afford to lose us as moneyspinners.<br /><br />When a group of fundie pastors stand on the steps of the Capitol recently, and call for gays to be stoned to death - as they did recently - it was one big yawn to those who aren't their supporters. Only the Unitarians and Quakers said anything against it. Christians as a whole didn't bother.<br /><br />Do you know what proportion of donations to help Trans people from practicing non-trans Christians you personally are responsible for? <br /><br />Let me tell you. From surveys over 3 years, covering about 20% of all trans people in the USA... 100%.<br /><br />Please tell that to your local group. That we've given up on you, because so very, very few christians practice what they preach - as you do. As you have demonstrated to me repeatedly, in thoughts, words and especially deeds.<br /><br />Transphobia and Homophobia come first. The religious justifications for it are found afterwards - if they even bother. Their religious beliefs have zero effect on their daily lives in all other areas - so why should they in this area?<br /><br />Good people like you will support us, even if we unfairly malign your beliefs. I defend you, not because it will do any good in practical terms, but because I have a very real aversion to seeing injustice committed. And you and your belief system have been treated very, very unjustly.Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-22201525652630585372009-12-09T05:44:48.282+11:002009-12-09T05:44:48.282+11:00What irritates me about the bigotry I see here is ...What irritates me about the bigotry I see here is not that it's unjust to me-as-a-Christian (why would I care?) but the...let's call it "lack of tactical perception" inherent in being openly hostile to a group which is much more powerful than yours, and whose acquiescence you will probably need if you're going to accomplish your agenda.<br />I'm reminded of St Jon of Needham, who said, "I don't think this Elder God is sufficiently enraged, so I'm going to poke it with a stick!"Laserlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07410066397664711673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-61822213431307291782009-12-08T10:42:13.951+11:002009-12-08T10:42:13.951+11:00I think we're slowly learning exactly why thes...I think we're slowly learning exactly why these scandals have perpetuated in this church.<br /><br />I wonder if there are any comparative studies about how different religions handle similar issues. With such a study, one might be able to effectively change the attributes that perpetuate these problems.Zimbelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-58594016048015844812009-12-08T10:15:38.585+11:002009-12-08T10:15:38.585+11:00I think the reason why so much bigotry and prejudi...I think the reason why so much bigotry and prejudice is shown against Christians - and sorry, there's no nicer way of saying it than "bigotry" and "prejudice" - is because so many people have had really bad experiences with RELIGION.<br /><br />There are many who can make a really good case that religion is, <i>per se</i> a bad thing that encourages evil, no matter how good individual pockets of religious believers are. That the whole concept leads itself to misuse.<br /><br />I think that that is correct, by the way. I also think it's irrelevant. Because you shouldn't look at "religion" or even "christianity" or even the "Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879".<br /><br />You look at people. At practices. At how they live, based on those religious precepts.<br /><br />Having said that, if the system, the organisational implementation of the creeds and doctrines of, say the Reformed Baptist Church of God, Reformation of 1879 have a reputation for being used as cover for cruelty, rapine, murder... then those organisational structures need reforming, if need be by disbanding the whole thing and starting again. Those who adhere to those precepts have a responsibility to recognise the problem, and do something about it. Not hide behind their own personal situation.<br /><br />I plead with all commenters who have attacked some really good people's core beliefs out of bigotry - bigotry caused by injustices committed in the name of these organisations - to realise that you *are* being bigots. You are judging every person of one class by the actions of some of that class. You may also be over-generalising, attributing flaws of particular groups to more general ones, or general ones to particular ones where that attribution is inappropriate, and most of all, unjust. <br /><br />Please be kind. Please be just. Even though you've been hurt. In fact, *because* you've been hurt, you shouldn't go around hurting others who don't deserve it, any more than you did.Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-30044675542188484372009-12-08T05:14:40.696+11:002009-12-08T05:14:40.696+11:00You miss it at step 5. Someone who suffers may ind...You miss it at step 5. Someone who suffers may indeed get a reward but that does not mean that inflicting the suffering is permissable. In this case,it breaks the commandment "thou shalt not bear false witness".Laserlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07410066397664711673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-84834666626545123482009-12-07T20:51:33.438+11:002009-12-07T20:51:33.438+11:00I believe the term to describe this is cognitive d...I believe the term to describe this is cognitive dissonance. Possibly even 'true believer syndrome' or similar, but put into place a tiny bit at a time. Think of a large number of balances or feedback loops and what happens when all eventually become weighted to prevent a particular outcome (i.e., admitting that the Church is in fact, evil)...all other considerations become of less import or even irrelevant. And to prevent the collapse of the house of cards, more evil must be done. It's either come clean or eliminate dissent using whatever methods are at hand. The possession of money, power and secrets tends to steer toward the latter.SarasNavelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14536453202054024597noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-62615987491078901722009-12-07T07:44:46.272+11:002009-12-07T07:44:46.272+11:00The Church, indeed all churches, have seriously lo...The Church, indeed all churches, have seriously lost theyr way, if they ever had a way at all. Religion must be smashed.RadarGrrlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13473608033848746101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-73248950407208657792009-12-06T05:43:39.526+11:002009-12-06T05:43:39.526+11:00The church has spent centuries crawling down it...The church has spent centuries crawling down it's own little rabbit hole.<br /><br /> It long ago lost sight of any meaningful morality in its own actions - around about the time its existence became about political power as the Roman Empire crumbled.MgShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11183962674882855323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-37245610640610546542009-12-06T00:36:01.565+11:002009-12-06T00:36:01.565+11:00I do not care how much 'good' the church d...I do not care how much 'good' the church does. It should be abolished and criminalized. The priest class seeks only to maintain its place of privlage and to suport the governments that prop it up. There can be no good from a lie, no matter the reason. It is better to wallow in a terible truth than it is to rejoice in a lie.<br /><br />Cynthia LeeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-82782892688672923502009-12-06T00:06:48.721+11:002009-12-06T00:06:48.721+11:00In lieing it is not the telling of an untruth that...In lieing it is not the telling of an untruth that is immoral but the intent to decieve. This mental reservation doctrine supports the intent to decieve.<br /><br />Claiming that this doctrine makes a deliberately untrue statement not a lie is itself a lie. I may require self deception first but it is still a lie.Lloyd Flackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00832519369660328832noreply@blogger.com