tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post6993599434359192406..comments2024-02-20T15:17:48.594+11:00Comments on A.E.Brain: Ron Gold on the Transgendered - A DialogueZoe Brainhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-59721046948822121052010-09-03T04:57:41.001+10:002010-09-03T04:57:41.001+10:00Hi Joanie =)
No offense taken, so no worries.
T...Hi Joanie =)<br /><br />No offense taken, so no worries. <br />The more I think about it, the more I come to see the phrase "gender confusion" as inappropriate.<br /><br />Not only does it have a lot of negative baggage attached to it, but the term "confusion" implies an individual either has false ideas about an issue (such as their gender) or doesn't know what to think. <br /><br />So I am seeking a new phrase to describe gender behavior in-congruent with ones physiologyBitterness Barbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15080082175885943270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-37596648380171153362010-09-03T04:28:05.473+10:002010-09-03T04:28:05.473+10:00Hi Christy,
I certainly meant no offense to you b...Hi Christy,<br /><br />I certainly meant no offense to you by the use of the term you are comfortable with. However being a citizen of the U.S., where a dark ages mentality still applies to GID, I just wanted to toss out the fact that the term "gender confusion" is not what many here believe it to be.<br /><br />All in all, I appreciated and support your conclusions as they are much more in tune with the reality of the situation than is the generally accepted tenets of the religious conservatives here in the U.S.<br /><br />All the best,<br />JoanieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-13615911831394637282010-09-03T04:01:34.002+10:002010-09-03T04:01:34.002+10:00Oh...well I have no attachment to the term "g...Oh...well I have no attachment to the term "gender confusion" and by no means meant to imply the condition could be "cured"<br /><br />There is no "cure" for someone who has a female forebrain and a male physiology...it just "is"...that was my point<br /><br />I'm not going to get bogged down in semantics...if the "gender confusion" offends you please substitute your own phrase that's more palatable...no need to throw the baby out with the bath water here.Bitterness Barbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15080082175885943270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-29149564065699509052010-09-03T03:10:15.937+10:002010-09-03T03:10:15.937+10:00One of the things that I disagree with, in Christy...One of the things that I disagree with, in Christy's post is the recurrent reference to "gender confusion". From my perspective, the only gender confusion that has ever occurred in my life was in the perceptions of others toward who and what I really am. Internally, I have never had any doubts about my situation, far surpassing any type of religious or other faith. To use the term gender confusion points, semantically, toward a behaviorists etiology, indicating that the condition may be cured or moderated by psychological means.<br /><br />For a transsexual, there is absolutely no confusion about their sexual identity. If this were not so then the approaches, outlined in the DSM, would have some demonstrable degree of consistent results and the concept of "having the patient accept their physical gender" would not be deemed an unrealistic goal.<br /><br />From a social point of view, many Christian organizations - those severely opposing transitional medicine and any form of legal protections for transsexuals here in the U.S. - are increasingly using the term "gender confusion" as a means of denigration and denial that this is in any way a condition of physiological or prenatal onset.JoanieH121506https://www.blogger.com/profile/04663054008436015706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-10830425864212733622010-09-03T02:36:35.388+10:002010-09-03T02:36:35.388+10:00I believe you are correct about chimerism being at...I believe you are correct about chimerism being at the root of poorly understood behaviors such as same sex attraction and gender identity confusion and I also believe the processes that give rise to these behaviors occur in the womb.<br /><br />Please consider the following article from Dr Charles Bocklage entitled "Embryogenesis Of Chimeras, Twins And Anterior Midline Asymmetries":<br /><br />http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/21/3/579<br /><br />Dr Boklage believes like Dr Lee Silver that human chimeras are very common (1 in 8) but are not detected. If he is correct, it seems reasonable that a male & female embryo merging could end up with the biological body of one gender and the mental "wiring" of the other gender.<br /><br />A plural pregnancy (i.e. boy and girl) that ends up as one individual is a chimera comprised of male and female genetic material. It is possible that such an individual could have a genetically female forebrain (including the hypothalamus) and all other tissues genetically male or vice versa. This is called a "brain chimera".<br /><br />Brain chimeras are impossible to identify by means blood tests or tissue sampling. Their physiology is of one gender, but their forebrain is the other. The only way to detect a brain chimera at this time is via autopsy.<br /> <br />I posit both same sex attraction and gender identity confusion can arise when a brain chimera is created in the womb. It is a scientific fact that the hypothalamus–pituitary–gonad (HPG) axis coordinates displays of sexual behavior with reproductive physiology. Sexual brain development therefore defines the ability of brain areas,including the neural part of the HPG axis, to respond to particular physiological signals in adulthood <br /><br />So it follows that a brain chimera -- with the physiology of one gender, but the forebrain of the other -- would display sexual behavior incongruent with his/her physiology (same-sex attraction) and/or gender behavior incongruent with his/her physiology (gender confusion).<br /><br />This has already been documented in the lab settings and the real world and in labortory settings with Japanese Quails and Male Tortie Tomcats:<br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC164695/pdf/1007959.pdf<br /><br />http://www.messybeast.com/mosaicism6.htm<br /><br /><br />In sum I accept the following are true<br /><br />a) Spontaneous Human chimeras are not rare and<br />b) Brain chimerism resulting from the fusion of male/female fetuses can produce behavior such as same sex attraction and gender confusion.<br /><br />So in reality, Chimeras are part of the natural way of things and not abnormal at all. Indeed, chimeras are just as much a part of Gods plan as anything else.<br /><br />~ChristyBitterness Barbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15080082175885943270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-43066125301194381952010-09-03T02:35:23.843+10:002010-09-03T02:35:23.843+10:00I believe you are correct about chimerism being at...I believe you are correct about chimerism being at the root of poorly understood behaviors such as same sex attraction and gender identity confusion and I also believe the processes that give rise to these behaviors occur in the womb.<br /><br />Please consider the following article from Dr Charles Bocklage entitled "Embryogenesis Of Chimeras, Twins And Anterior Midline Asymmetries":<br /><br />http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/21/3/579<br /><br />Dr Boklage believes like Dr Lee Silver that human chimeras are very common (1 in 8) but are not detected. If he is correct, it seems reasonable that a male & female embryo merging could end up with the biological body of one gender and the mental "wiring" of the other gender.<br /><br />A plural pregnancy (i.e. boy and girl) that ends up as one individual is a chimera comprised of male and female genetic material. It is possible that such an individual could have a genetically female forebrain (including the hypothalamus) and all other tissues genetically male or vice versa. This is called a "brain chimera".<br /><br />Brain chimeras are impossible to identify by means blood tests or tissue sampling. Their physiology is of one gender, but their forebrain is the other. The only way to detect a brain chimera at this time is via autopsy.<br /> <br />I posit both same sex attraction and gender identity confusion can arise when a brain chimera is created in the womb. It is a scientific fact that the hypothalamus–pituitary–gonad (HPG) axis coordinates displays of sexual behavior with reproductive physiology. Sexual brain development therefore defines the ability of brain areas,including the neural part of the HPG axis, to respond to particular physiological signals in adulthood <br /><br />So it follows that a brain chimera -- with the physiology of one gender, but the forebrain of the other -- would display sexual behavior incongruent with his/her physiology (same-sex attraction) and/or gender behavior incongruent with his/her physiology (gender confusion).<br /><br />This has already been documented in the lab settings and the real world and in labortory settings with Japanese Quails and Male Tortie Tomcats:<br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC164695/pdf/1007959.pdf<br /><br />http://www.messybeast.com/mosaicism6.htm<br /><br /><br />In sum I accept the following are true<br /><br />a) Spontaneous Human chimeras are not rare and<br />b) Brain chimerism resulting from the fusion of male/female fetuses can produce behavior such as same sex attraction and gender confusion.Bitterness Barbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15080082175885943270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-18521311887021897692010-09-03T02:23:46.258+10:002010-09-03T02:23:46.258+10:00I believe you are correct about chimerism being at...I believe you are correct about chimerism being at the root of poorly understood behaviors such as same sex attraction and gender identity confusion and I also believe the processes that give rise to these behaviors occur in the womb.<br /><br />Please consider the following article from Dr Charles Bocklage entitled "Embryogenesis Of Chimeras, Twins And Anterior Midline Asymmetries":<br /><br />http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/21/3/579<br /><br />Dr Boklage believes like Dr Lee Silver that human chimeras are very common (1 in 8) but are not detected. If he is correct, it seems reasonable that a male & female embryo merging could end up with the biological body of one gender and the mental "wiring" of the other gender.<br /><br />A plural pregnancy (i.e. boy and girl) that ends up as one individual is a chimera comprised of male and female genetic material. It is possible that such an individual could have a genetically female forebrain (including the hypothalamus) and all other tissues genetically male or vice versa. This is called a "brain chimera".<br /><br />Brain chimeras are impossible to identify by means blood tests or tissue sampling. Their physiology is of one gender, but their forebrain is the other. The only way to detect a brain chimera at this time is via autopsy.<br /> <br />I posit both same sex attraction and gender identity confusion can arise when a brain chimera is created in the womb. It is a scientific fact that the hypothalamus–pituitary–gonad (HPG) axis coordinates displays of sexual behavior with reproductive physiology. Sexual brain development therefore defines the ability of brain areas,including the neural part of the HPG axis, to respond to particular physiological signals in adulthood <br /><br />So it follows that a brain chimera -- with the physiology of one gender, but the forebrain of the other -- would display sexual behavior incongruent with his/her physiology (same-sex attraction) and/or gender behavior incongruent with his/her physiology (gender confusion).<br /><br />This has already been documented in the lab settings and the real world and in labortory settings with Japanese Quails and Male Tortie Tomcats:<br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC164695/pdf/1007959.pdf<br /><br />http://www.messybeast.com/mosaicism6.htm<br /><br /><br />In sum I accept the following are true<br /><br />a) Spontaneous Human chimeras are not rare and<br />b) Brain chimerism resulting from the fusion of male/female fetuses can produce behavior such as same sex attraction and gender confusion.Bitterness Barbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15080082175885943270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-63669589151893774312010-04-20T23:55:34.944+10:002010-04-20T23:55:34.944+10:00After reading through all of this, I am struck wit...After reading through all of this, I am struck with one very obvious aspect of reality in the thread. People want to have black and white answers, regardless of the real nature of so many things in the universe being spectral in nature. People love their paired dualities as they make it so much easier to cling to their comfort zones and will simply refuse to accept anything that defies their individual sense of logic and order.<br /><br />Take this scenario into consideration: Transsexualism has been a noted occurrence in every culture that has ever occurred within the history of mankind, yet Abrahamic Religions fail to mention it, even though it is certain that transsexualism was very evident within both Jewish and Christian cultures, long before they became such. Even so, most people simply ignore the usefulness of Occam's Razor in dealing with the topic as it is much easier to construct elaborate myths and attribute transsexualism to "...theories suggest..." and "...God made them man and woman..." and assume a behaviorist etiology that precludes any possibility of genetics and/or prenatal dysgenesis as the cause.<br /><br />One of the things that I believe needs to be brought to the forefront here is one simple little condition that pertains to the situation. Having spent years in various peer groups, it becomes crystal clear, from my personal perspective, that one can pretty much take any transsexual's story, file off the serial numbers and the dates, and apply it to just about any other transsexual. This is called a "syndrome" in the medical sciences and its very consistency, from person to person, minimizes the possibility of behavioral/psychological etiology - as it is just too consistent to be such.<br /><br />Sometimes, I despair of the people of "normal" sexual/mental congruity as it seems to be all too consistent that transsexualism is totally an example of "only the burned believe in fire." It is not rocket science, but its very simplicity, and inherent nature within the human organism renders it, simply stated, "unimaginable" to the non-affected as they can not even begin to imagine what it must feel like to experience this type of fundamental incongruity. Not having felt the flames, they simply can not conceive how painful and devastating it can be to those affected, thus the condition gets minimized, while so many of the afflicted pay the ultimate price for being born different.<br /><br />I can only hope that someday the tautological aspects of gender dysfunction, held by the mainstream of our cultures, will fall to education and the final acceptance that even the sexuality and gender perceptions of individuals are just as prone to biological deviation as are limbs, palates, vision and other aspects of the human organism. I also believe that people also need to simply recognize that it is the brain, not the genitalia, that is the primary sexual organ of all animal species - as without the central nervous system, no system of a colonial organism is capable of any function in harmony with the rest of the organism whatsoever.<br /><br />This all seems so simple, yet like all areas of human life, it is more natural to arrive at contention than acceptance. This is especially true where the sacred cows, cherished misconceptions and dualities/dichotomies are at stake, which make an unpredictable universe seem somehow more ordered and tame than it really is.<br /><br />Best regards to all,<br />JoanieHJoanieH121506https://www.blogger.com/profile/04663054008436015706noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-75125681260531547832010-01-01T07:03:02.821+11:002010-01-01T07:03:02.821+11:00Furthermore, the effects on fish and amphibia are ...Furthermore, the effects on fish and amphibia are cross-sexing, with no way to show evidence of gender being affected. I don't see these trans claimants claiming to have been cross-sexed in any similar ways. And with DES, it was not administered early enough in pregnancy to have affected brain gender. They are being led up a garden path for some reason.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-84108833365317633472010-01-01T06:36:44.271+11:002010-01-01T06:36:44.271+11:00Blogger Zoe Brain said...
>
> oatc -...Blogger Zoe Brain said...<br /> > <br /> > oatc - see my 2006 post Homosexuality, Transsexuality, and<br /> > Horror. My source is not some transphobic sensationalist film<br /> > director recently thrust into the limelight, but Afsaneh<br /> > Najmabadi, professor of History and of Studies of Women, Gender,<br /> > and Sexuality at Harvard University. Someone who's been studying<br /> > this area for many years. And my conclusions pre-date both the<br /> > sensationalist film, and the professionally co-ordinated<br /> > campaign to discredit it.<br /><br />What campaign, never mind a professionally coordinated one?<br /><br />That is totally unevidenced, transphobic rubbish, Zoe. Even worse than the film which was shot in Teheran with real clinic clients. The women's studies academic hadn't even started her "research" when making those accusations!<br /><br /> > I hope to get a copy of the more extensive paper<br /> > co-authored by Milton Diamond on the subject of DES to put on my<br /> > blog. Mr Kerlin's serious medical problems mean that he has been<br /> > unable to put the necessary finishing touches to it.<br /> > <br /> > The increased use of pthalates and other chemicals shown to have<br /> > "gender bending" effects on fish and amphibia coincides with the<br /> > discontinuation of DES, and may mask the expected drop we should<br /> > have seen from about 5 years ago. Conversely, the presence of a<br /> > bolus from DES may confound the study of the onset of effect of<br /> > such chemicals in the environment.<br /> > <br /> > I suggest you contact Dana Beyer on the subject. As she wrote to<br /> > me: if you have any ideas how I can get this paper published<br /> > without too much effort, please let me know. Scott has dropped<br /> > out for medical reasons, and I don't want to bother Mickey. Yet<br /> > I've waited four years already, and people should have access to<br /> > it.<br /><br />Why, when transsexuality has been found in so many cultures, in so many environments, for thousands of years, should those recent factors be the cause, rather than coincidence? There are dozens of potential, naturally occurring genetic causes anyway. Why waste effort on ones that could not have been having any effect more than 50 years ago, and only in some countries, and for which there is rarely even any actual evidence of exposure? Where's the science in your approach?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-64909663710094426292010-01-01T05:59:14.531+11:002010-01-01T05:59:14.531+11:00...if that was not enough, they campaign and publi......if that was not enough, they campaign and publish in every possible way (and their connections are vast and influential) to muddy the waters on transsexuality in children. A prime achievement of theirs for that is the 'Gender Identity Disorder' diagnosis, which replaced transsexuality, especially its childhood variant. It is deliberately drawn so widely, and then used so loosely, that many other children than transsexual can be and are swept into the category. Then, voila, it turns out many aren't transsexual, and, instead of blaming the faulty diagnosis, they claim transsexual children have changed their minds or been "cured". Either way their identities cannot be trusted and must not be accepted or acted upon because "so many change their minds".<br /><br />In fact it is most unlikely any do. I know I'm biased, but I cannot imagine someone alienated from the wrong body and fearing it growing into its adult form ever being happy with that. Someone who identifies with women suddenly becoming a happy man. You'd need a totally new brain with totally replaced memories and dreams. And other clinics report (although they fear to publish, so powerful is Zucker) that children they firmly diagnose as transsexual (rather than GIDC) never change their minds. Cohen-Kettenis, of Amsterdam, who pals along with Zucker extensively, nevertheless let the cat out of the bag way back in 1996 when she was filmed telling the mother of a 12-year-old T->M that the key symptom is explicitly and consistently asking for the body of the other sex. Those children she said "never change their minds".<br /><br />When it comes to blocking further advances of the wrong puberty, at 12, they back that up with a set of psychological research instruments that take many hours to administer, and are administered to every child at several points, to watch for any changes. Hopefully that allows for the inclusion of transgender children, who are sure, too. They won't let us see those instruments so we have no way to know.<br /><br />And so those figures you, Zoe, quoted, are misinformation, and you should see why.<br /><br />The adult GID diagnosis, which was created at the same time by the same colleagues of Zucker, has similar effects. Again it is used to suggest people change their minds, but it is also often used as the qualifier for research subjects, creating uselessly mixed data, contrasting with, and strangely often thought to invalidate research reporting on post-surgical subjects. The Monash genetic study in 2008, which held out that is had a large number of transsexual subjects when in fact only GID had been used, with some samples collected at first visits to a gender clinic, results all over the place, both wasting very scarce resources and time, and seeming to invalidate a previous, Swedish study of a few actual transsexual subjects, being a really disastrous example.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-6162497951288368612010-01-01T05:57:37.156+11:002010-01-01T05:57:37.156+11:00Zimbel:
>>
>> "Give a girl ...Zimbel:<br /> >><br /> >> "Give a girl nothing but trucks and cars to play with,<br /> >> and she'll tend to take one to bed, saying "goodnight truckie"<br /> >> and make up stories about the big trucks and their children, the<br /> >> cars.<br /> >> <br /> >> Interestingly.. children who show gender-atypical behaviour at an<br /> >> early age are not usually transsexual. 2/3 of the time, they're<br /> >> gay or lesbian instead. And most gays, and lesbians show no sign<br /> >> of cross-gendered behaviour when young."<br /> >> <br /> >> -I've seen you state this at least once before. Could you point<br /> >> to your source for this information?<br /><br />Blogger Zoe Brain replied:<br /> > <br /> > It's work done by Kenneth Zucker and crew over at CAMH in<br /> > Canada. While I disagree with his conclusions, and consider his<br /> > methods Mengele-esque, if you can stomach what happened to these<br /> > children you'll learn a lot about the issues.<br /><br />If you (rightly) disagree with his conclusions, why echo them? In fact many children who are not trans these days ignore the strictly gendered stereotypes Zucker uses, and many lesbian and gay people did so as children. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with being transsexual, and some transsexual children keep things very well hidden until puberty scares them to hell. So cross-gendered behaviour, upon which Zucker bases everything, shouldn't be used as diagnostic.<br /><br />I don't know where you got the sweet "goodnight truckie" line from, although it sounds straight out of the boy-oriented 'Thomas the Tank Engine' to me, rather than a girl's words. Denied dolls or domestic toys, I tucked the cat up in cushions and blankets like a baby, until they got rid of it, because of me. I helped my mother and grandmother with housework, and populated the diecast toy vehicles I was given with people who continued their lives in my imagination when the vehicular events were over and the never-damaged toys were carefully put away in their garages/boxes, just as my mother and father garaged their cars. The vehicles weren't people.<br /><br />Toys are only aids to imagination, which is still easy without them. I would play house under garden bushes with the children, guests, fixtures and fittings entirely, as we would say now "virtual". In my early years I often had five or more stories in my head at any time, ready to be picked up when I fancied, and all mainly featured women, or girls, including me. It was private.<br /><br />Zucker and his colleagues do evil to transsexual children in two respects.<br /><br />At the Toronto clinic they use reparative therapy on suspected transsexual children up to the age of about 12, claiming it is "diagnostic", since they will later enable transition of those who wish to after that time, but ignoring the huge harm it must do to someone to suffer years of attempted conditioning against the gender role in which they live the rest of their life. Not to mention all the other harm, such as the children being denied acceptance of their identity, their parents being told to act against the child's interests, and the child being denied any normality all those irreplaceable years. They advocate that other clinics do the same. By that they also perpetuate the lie that gender identity can be changed, deny that it is inborn and should have the special protection of inborn characteristics, and hinder research into inborn causation. They viciously attack parents who instead accept a child's strong and firm identification at such ages, even to their faces and with the child present. I have witnessed that.<br /><br />Secondly...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-1011650420927814982010-01-01T03:17:33.102+11:002010-01-01T03:17:33.102+11:00oatc - see my 2006 post Homosexuality, Transsexual...oatc - see my 2006 post <a href="http://aebrain.blogspot.com/2006/04/homosexuality-transsexuality-and.html" rel="nofollow">Homosexuality, Transsexuality, and Horror</a>. My source is not some transphobic sensationalist film director recently thrust into the limelight, but <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afsaneh_Najmabadi" rel="nofollow">Afsaneh Najmabadi</a>, professor of History and of Studies of Women, Gender, and Sexuality at Harvard University. Someone who's been studying this area for many years. And my conclusions pre-date both the sensationalist film, and the professionally co-ordinated campaign to discredit it.<br /><br />I hope to get a copy of the more extensive paper co-authored by Milton Diamond on the subject of DES to put on my blog. Mr Kerlin's serious medical problems mean that he has been unable to put the necessary finishing touches to it.<br /><br />The increased use of pthalates and other chemicals shown to have "gender bending" effects on fish and amphibia coincides with the discontinuation of DES, and may mask the expected drop we should have seen from about 5 years ago. Conversely, the presence of a bolus from DES may confound the study of the onset of effect of such chemicals in the environment.<br /><br />I suggest you contact Dana Beyer on the subject. As she wrote to me: <i>if you have any ideas how I can get this paper published without too much effort, please let me know. Scott has dropped out for medical reasons, and I don't want to bother Mickey. Yet I've waited four years already, and people should have access to it.</i>Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-90031362019303871592010-01-01T02:54:34.097+11:002010-01-01T02:54:34.097+11:00Zoe Brain said...
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> Ship Of Fools - re ...Zoe Brain said...<br /><br /> ><br /> > Ship Of Fools - re DES:<br /> > <br /> > See Kerlin "Prenatal Exposure to Diethylstilbestrol (DES) in<br /> > Males and Gender-Related Disorders: Results from a 5-Year Study<br /> > " and "The Presence of Gender Dysphoria, Transsexualism, and<br /> > Disorders of Sexual Differentiation in Males Prenatally Exposed<br /> > to Diethylstilbestrol: Initial Evidence from a 5-Year Study."<br /><br />Both of those lack the authority of peer review and feature subjects anxious to prove, for some reason, that they were harmed by a commercial product rather than experiencing gender conditions for the same uncertain reasons as others. Since the incidence of these conditions did not increase and decrease in step with the adoption and then banning of the product, it seems unlikely there is such a connection.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-25817431901514983852010-01-01T02:41:26.078+11:002010-01-01T02:41:26.078+11:00Zoe Brain:
| Effeminate men were not misdiagnosed...Zoe Brain:<br /> | Effeminate men were not misdiagnosed as transsexual women <br /> | because of their nonconformant gender behaviour as they are <br /> | in Iran today<br /><br />This is misinformation, no doubt based on the highly transphobic documentary 'Be Like Others' and associated interviews. The fact is that the Iranian clinic tries hard to ensure only transsexual people enter their programme but, as elsewhere, others lie to them, for their own reasons. In Iran those reasons are more numerous and include wishing to avoid the terrible choice between a hidden life, severe official persecution (including a possible death sentence), or exile (which many Iranians have chosen and so there are substantial support networks which make the path a little easier).<br /><br />The documentary shows several such people who have entered the programme by falsely claiming the symptoms of transsexuality and argue they are being forced to then have treatment they do not want if they are to remain in the programme. Thus they threaten the provision for transsexual people, who were shown to appreciate the clinic greatly.<br /><br />Gays worldwide have assumed that these were gay men, but it is more likely, since they were all dressed as women and not apparently unhappy to do that, that they are transgender.<br /><br />The Iranian programme, because it is permitted under a religious order based on understanding that some are born in the wrong body and need that to be corrected, has, regrettably, no provision for transgender, leaving them, if they do not follow the path designated for transsexual people and are attracted to those of the same sex as that of their birth, with the same difficult choices as lesbians and gay men.<br /><br />But, given the appalling situation of transsexual people where there is no provision for transition, against which joining a large exile community might seem relatively cushy, I find those attacking the Iranian clinic in that way selfishly despicable. But your taking their side is, I hope, simply ignorance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-4024685694674202232009-12-24T04:34:02.452+11:002009-12-24T04:34:02.452+11:00" And in a few areas, the left frontal gyrus ..." And in a few areas, the left frontal gyrus IIRC, they are "hyper-male", likely to have Aspergers syndrome. Analogous patterns are found in experimental animals treated with cross-gendered hormones in foetu."<br /><br />Hi Zoe, I enjoy your blog, and your conversation with Ron is really the most honest look at this most recent controversy.<br /><br />I quoted the above portion from your discussion of the research because it interests me extremely.<br /><br />I am on the Asperger's spectrum, and I'm also... well... Genderqueer more then anything, or Not-Male as you said in this exchange. I believe I have a 46xy/47xxy mosaic, but can't prove it.<br /><br />Anyways.. this preface is leading up to me asking for more information on this statement. I've seen the study where 6% of patients at one Gender Clinic also present with AS Symptoms.<br /><br />I belong to a transgender aspie group, and I've had this discussion numerous times on Aspie support boards... there definitely seems to be a higher percentage of non-gender normative folks with AS.<br /><br />I realize you said people should do their own research, but you didn't include the names of the studies... I would very much like that information!<br /><br />Thanks<br /><br />- DanielleUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16113363637392455735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-4514030563842955002009-12-20T14:19:20.679+11:002009-12-20T14:19:20.679+11:00Tab Hunter's Secret -
I'm just doing wha...Tab Hunter's Secret - <br /><br />I'm just doing what many GLB people have done for me - not so much educating as just informing me about areas where I don't share their experience.<br /><br />It's a simple matter of doing for others what they've already been kind enough to do for me.<br /><br />Thanks everyone for your kind words. I think though that the praise is undeserved : I'm in a position to inform, when many are not, so given that rare position, I feel it's no more than simple justice that I do my best to do so. It's my turn, if you like. To give what little I can, just as I've received so much from others. I just wish I could do more.Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-76387428541154305682009-12-20T10:34:20.538+11:002009-12-20T10:34:20.538+11:00Zoe, I want to thank you for this series of conver...Zoe, I want to thank you for this series of conversations. I am learning a great deal and am beginning to change my views on some issues. I hope that not only are you "educating" Mr. Gold but that you and the other "T" people are learning a little bit as well in this heathy, if painful, process. <br /><br />Some of the issues that have arisen for me and those like me (gay men of a certain age), I'd wager, is the stance of many "T" people coming to the table as "experts" on all things "T", which means if you aren't "T" you must remain silent except for asking polite questions and also as experts on all things "G" and "L" as well. <br /><br />This brings back a lot of ill will and anger that surfaced when our lesbian sisters first began to assert their rightful place at the table. Gay men were being constantly hit by society for being too much like women and by lesbians for being too much like men or trying to "steal" the identities of women (drag, etc,) and the takeaway was that all the ills of society were basically our fault because we were born with penises. <br /><br />Pretty much every thing we said and did was suspect and open to ridicule. We separated in many cases and worked against each other in others. Our progress was stymied and hurt for a long time by this war and it would be sad to see it repeated.<br /><br />Being a victim of oppression and privilege certainly conveys the right to speak one's own truths. It does not give one the right to claim victimhood while simultaneously defining the stance of opponents, whether they oppose by choice or through ignorance.<br /><br />Ignorance, last time I checked, is not illegal nor immoral, though it is certainly dangerous. And while it may be advantageous to and desirable for oppressed groups for their opponents to seek enlightenment on their own it rarely happens, in my experience. <br /><br />Your willingness to, however wearily, take the time to engage with us awful old gay veterans is appreciated. I hope you will continue to do us the courtesy of hearing us openly as well. Together I think we can learn much and change the world for the better.<br /><br />NamasteTab Hunter's Secretnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-72495035854759822562009-12-20T08:08:14.408+11:002009-12-20T08:08:14.408+11:00Apologia for the misspelling of 'monodimension...Apologia for the misspelling of 'monodimensional' and for, in the last sentence, of my earlier comment, my having typed 'can' when I intended to have typed 'cannot.'Jordynne Olivia Lobonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-57505435895298252142009-12-20T08:05:14.312+11:002009-12-20T08:05:14.312+11:00Gold's mistaken notion of transwomen (and, as ...Gold's mistaken notion of transwomen (and, as I expect to be likely, also of transmen) is that of Gore Vidal in Vidal's novel 'Myra Breckenridge.' The Breckenridge character is familiar instantly to most transwomen, at least to those of us who have experience of gay male culture: Breckenridge is a gay man, a drag queen who'd gone too far and surgically attempted an identity inimical to his true self - and I and many like me have seen exemplars of such gay men having gotten carried away with what seems to be their monodimensioal, or very shallow, idea of who and what a woman is. This grievously mistaken notion of transwomen is, I've observed, most common among and entrenched in gay men, who parse the identity, the core sense of self, of transpersons solely through the lens of their homosexuality - and can admit the existence, or even the possibility of the existence - of transwomen's genuineness of identity, of being.Jordynne Olivia Lobonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-13213925114861685012009-12-20T08:02:19.079+11:002009-12-20T08:02:19.079+11:00Battybattybats, yes. Not that it is too relevant f...Battybattybats, yes. Not that it is too relevant for the discussion at hand, but you are correct. Some of the usually-seen pictures of the 1933 Nazi book bonfires show the final moments of the library and archives of the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft, and while they were at it they naturally took the opportunity to thrash the rest of the institute as well. Registers of names and addresses were not burned of course, just confiscated and saved for later use...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-28116488974558503212009-12-19T14:25:48.191+11:002009-12-19T14:25:48.191+11:00Ship Of Fools - re DES:
See Kerlin "Prenatal...Ship Of Fools - re DES:<br /><br />See Kerlin "<a href="http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/mens-health-forum/prenatal-exposure-diethylstilbestrol-des-134253671.html" rel="nofollow">Prenatal Exposure to Diethylstilbestrol (DES) in Males and Gender-Related Disorders: Results from a 5-Year Study</a> " and "<a href="http://www.antijen.org/transadvocate/id33.html" rel="nofollow">The Presence of Gender Dysphoria, Transsexualism, and Disorders of Sexual Differentiation in Males Prenatally Exposed to Diethylstilbestrol: Initial Evidence from a 5-Year Study.</a>"Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-38119038177009973822009-12-19T12:17:20.983+11:002009-12-19T12:17:20.983+11:00i will concede the infuriation felt when people fo...i will concede the infuriation felt when people forget those besides Jews that were also killed. It taps into some racial / family anger i have, which i won't bother boring you with.<br /><br />But i wouldn't drag it, and my outrage of long-past genocides, out as debate tactics over sporatic violence or lost jobs.<br /><br />There is a time and a place for everything. <br /><br />And some analogies just aren't appropriate, no matter how emotionally worked up you, me, or anyone may get.<br /><br />Death camp parallels are overwrought and melodramatic when compared to anything going on today. Period.<br /><br />i guess this is the part where we agree to disagree.Anonymous Womanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16510607142721839201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-2401872277478222752009-12-19T03:13:20.041+11:002009-12-19T03:13:20.041+11:00From one Rocket Scientist to another, thank you ve...From one Rocket Scientist to another, thank you very much! I love reading that the BTSc difference was followed up with more high-quality work. (Does anyone have an FMRI unit I could borrow for a few years?) On a personal note, it was with great pride that I found in my 40's that I was a member of the LGBt community (MtF); but now, 10 years after transitioning, I find the "t" is still a "lower-case" letter, even at my job, where I was the original founder of our Gay/Straight alliance. There is almost no support for trans issues beyond simply not firing us.<br /><br />Thanks Again,<br />PattiMichelle SheafferAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-22034630565582109292009-12-18T13:47:42.627+11:002009-12-18T13:47:42.627+11:00Hmm when mentioning Nazis and objections to mentio...Hmm when mentioning Nazis and objections to mentioning them lets consider the following:<br /><br />PINK TRIANGLES!<br /><br />I'm sorry but having some gypsy blood from Germany, Poland and further east amongst the Carpathians knowing that relatives of mine died in those camps and similar Soviet persecutions it sends me into a near blind rage whenever the OTHER victims of the death camps and genocidal policies are forgotten.<br /><br />Gypsies were slaughtered. Gays were slaughtered too. We know they had a symbol picked out for Lesbians though last I heard it was unknown if any were killed or not. So lets remember that Gays like Gypsies have a very real claim to discussing in context the death camps.<br /><br />Now the Nazis IIRC also burned down the first transsexual clinic.<br /><br />Rather than being irrational and nonsensical to bring up the death camps in these discussions it is an apt thing that our community has a very real right to do.<br /><br />Nazi genocide and eugenics and persecution occurred to others too. Every group of victims have a valid claim to discuss and have recognised by history and society that persecution.Battybattybatshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18030389503526882755noreply@blogger.com