tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post2726132172963545410..comments2024-02-20T15:17:48.594+11:00Comments on A.E.Brain: Trans Related Law Reform in the ACTZoe Brainhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-31576684099843638512011-03-30T16:28:07.773+11:002011-03-30T16:28:07.773+11:00May I suggest you read 5 Sexes Revisited?
Fausto-...May I suggest you read <a href="http://www.neiu.edu/~lsfuller/5sexesrevisited.htm" rel="nofollow">5 Sexes Revisited</a>?<br /><br />Fausto-Sterling didn't just make up that 1.7% figure. It's a ballpark estimate of those departing from the "Platonic Ideal" of M and F.Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-44455842013835258792011-03-30T16:20:42.007+11:002011-03-30T16:20:42.007+11:00Reply:
See Intersex is as natural as oatmeal show...Reply:<br /><br />See <a href="http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1417297/pg1" rel="nofollow">Intersex is as natural as oatmeal</a> showing Sax's figures don't match up with recorded rates in female athletes.<br /><br />If someone says that Coroline Cossey, 48XXXY and partial feminisation before transition is not Intersexed enough to count, they're playing political games.<br /><br />For example, Susan, here's the <a href="http://www.christian.org.uk/transsexualism/intersex_briefing.pdf" rel="nofollow">Christian Institute</a> on the matter, distorting, omitting inconvenient facts and misleading just so they can prove people like you are really Insane.<br /><br />I should mention I disagree with them, on the evidence. It does no harm to state the obvious sometimes.Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-53713560350438230972011-03-30T16:06:35.711+11:002011-03-30T16:06:35.711+11:00(contd)
http://www.intersexinitiative.org/academia...(contd)<br />http://www.intersexinitiative.org/academia/stephanie.html<br /><br />http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/intersex.aspx#Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-43655437382961281492011-03-30T16:06:00.017+11:002011-03-30T16:06:00.017+11:00Susan has left a new comment on your post "Tr...Susan has left a new comment on your post "Trans Related Law Reform in the ACT":<br /><br />I assure you I absolutely know what WHO stands for, Zoe...but continue with the snarky jabs if you like.<br /><br />ISNA says that that 1:1500 to 1:2000 births comprise all intersex births...yet also says that 1 or 2:1000 require surgery to normalize genital appearance. Even you should see this makes no sense...aside from simply being a guess. When John Hopkins did a study of all intersex surgeries done at their facility they list as one of the "most striking findings" was "1. the relatively small numbers of patients who actually underwent the more controversial procedures even in one of the largest centers in the world." This is what the II (II stands for Intersex Initiative) had to say about the ISNA figures, which I'm sure you know are based on Fausto-Sterling's inflated figures:<br /><br /><i>"The next highest figure, 1.7%, also comes from Fausto-Sterling. But this includes many conditions that are not considered intersex by many physicians. The major weakness of this figure is that close to 90% of it is made up of a single condition, LOCAH, which most doctors do not consider intersex. LOCAH is a milder form of CAH or congenital adrenal hyperplasia, and people born with LOCAH have ordinary male or female genitalia. (Contrary to popular belief, males can have CAH--it's just that only females with CAH are considered intersex, and even then that's not all females with CAH)."</i><br /><br />Leonard Sax, is a medical doctor whose undergraduate degree was in biology...though he has a Ph.D. in psychology there is nothing to indicate he ever practiced psychology or that his views and research on the intersex are based on it.<br /><br />And, yes, many endocrinologists (probably psychologist too) don't see chromosomal abnormalities per se as intersex conditions. The debate has nothing to do with ontology. Please tell me you know that and were just kidding.<br /><br />But, more to the point, none of what you write changes the fact that (1) most who are intersex have no idea they are intersex, (2) the vast majority of those who are intersex are perfectly content in their birth assigned sex/gender and are no more prone to wanting to change their birth assigned gender than anyone else. Few who are intersex are so anatomically intersex that they undergo sex reassignment surgery in infancy.<br /><br />With your history written on this site, saying you are intersex not transsexual is plain wrong. People who are intersex have no predisposition to changing their sex...those who do qualify as being IS under some broad brush definition yet are chormosomally and phenotypically male with otherwise normal genitalia and who do have GRS are most definitely transsexual. That would be you, Zoe, if what you have written about yourself is true.<br /><br />I've listed a few links here so that you can brush up on your facts and keep abreast...although I know that you are most invested in your position of being intersex and not "trans" and are not apt to be persuaded by the science and research of the experts.<br /><br />http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_3_39/ai_94130313/pg_7/?tag=content;col1<br /><br />http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7kSgtRWyCNwJ:oiiaustralia.com/725/intersex-michelle-obrien/+Intersex+medical+Definition&cd=42&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.comZoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-10906174511618618532011-03-30T16:03:32.725+11:002011-03-30T16:03:32.725+11:00Blame blogger, not me. I do ex-post-facto moderati...Blame blogger, not me. I do ex-post-facto moderation of spam, that's all.<br /><br />I'll re-post for you, as I *do* get a copy in my e-mail even if Blogger filters it aitomatically. Might split it into several parts, Blogger doesn't like multiple URLs in comments. That may be the problem.Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-65603452082740710012011-03-30T12:54:55.821+11:002011-03-30T12:54:55.821+11:00Refusing to post my comment doesn't make it tr...Refusing to post my comment doesn't make it true.lSusannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-28467544064622137792011-03-29T16:48:16.706+11:002011-03-29T16:48:16.706+11:00I assure you I absolutely know what WHO stands for...I assure you I absolutely know what WHO stands for, Zoe...but continue with the snarky jabs if you like.<br /><br />ISNA says that that 1:1500 to 1:2000 births comprise all intersex births...yet also says that 1 or 2:1000 require surgery to normalize genital appearance. Even you should see this makes no sense...aside from simply being a guess. When John Hopkins did a study of all intersex surgeries done at their facility they list as one of the "most striking findings" was "1. the relatively small numbers of patients who actually underwent the more controversial procedures even in one of the largest centers in the world." This is what the II (II stands for Intersex Initiative) had to say about the ISNA figures, which I'm sure you know are based on Fausto-Sterling's inflated figures:<br /><br /><i>"The next highest figure, 1.7%, also comes from Fausto-Sterling. But this includes many conditions that are not considered intersex by many physicians. The major weakness of this figure is that close to 90% of it is made up of a single condition, LOCAH, which most doctors do not consider intersex. LOCAH is a milder form of CAH or congenital adrenal hyperplasia, and people born with LOCAH have ordinary male or female genitalia. (Contrary to popular belief, males can have CAH--it's just that only females with CAH are considered intersex, and even then that's not all females with CAH)."</i><br /><br />Leonard Sax, is a medical doctor whose undergraduate degree was in biology...though he has a Ph.D. in psychology there is nothing to indicate he ever practiced psychology or that his views and research on the intersex are based on it.<br /><br />And, yes, many endocrinologists (probably psychologist too) don't see chromosomal abnormalities per se as intersex conditions. The debate has nothing to do with ontology. Please tell me you know that and were just kidding.<br /><br />But, more to the point, none of what you write changes the fact that (1) most who are intersex have no idea they are intersex, (2) the vast majority of those who are intersex are perfectly content in their birth assigned sex/gender and are no more prone to wanting to change their birth assigned gender than anyone else. Few who are intersex are so anatomically intersex that they undergo sex reassignment surgery in infancy.<br /><br />With your history written on this site, saying you are intersex not transsexual is plain wrong. People who are intersex have no predisposition to changing their sex...those who do qualify as being IS under some broad brush definition yet are chormosomally and phenotypically male with otherwise normal genitalia and who do have GRS are most definitely transsexual. That would be you, Zoe, if what you have written about yourself is true. <br /><br />I've listed a few links here so that you can brush up on your facts and keep abreast...although I know that you are most invested in your position of being intersex and not "trans" and are not apt to be persuaded by the science and research of the experts. <br /><br />http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2372/is_3_39/ai_94130313/pg_7/?tag=content;col1 <br /><br />http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7kSgtRWyCNwJ:oiiaustralia.com/725/intersex-michelle-obrien/+Intersex+medical+Definition&cd=42&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com <br /><br />http://www.intersexinitiative.org/academia/stephanie.html<br /><br />http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/intersex.aspx#Susanhttp://tgnonsense.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-70099417429391082892011-03-29T11:19:09.859+11:002011-03-29T11:19:09.859+11:00WHO - World Health Organisation, not the band.
If...WHO - World Health Organisation, not the band.<br /><br />If you prefer, look at the DSM-IV-TR instead, the diagnostic criteria for GID Code 302.85<br /><br /><i># A strong and persistent cross-gender identification (not merely a desire for any perceived cultural advantages of being the other sex). In adolescents and adults, the disturbance is manifested by symptoms such as a stated desire to be the other sex, frequent passing as the other sex, desire to live or be treated as the other sex, or the conviction that he or she has the typical feelings and reactions of the other sex.<br /># Persistent discomfort with his or her sex or sense of inappropriateness in the gender role of that sex. In adolescents and adults, the disturbance is manifested by symptoms such as preoccupation with getting rid of primary and secondary sex characteristics (e.g., request for hormones, surgery, or other procedures to physically alter sexual characteristics to simulate the other sex) or belief that he or she was born the wrong sex.<br /># <b>The disturbance is not concurrent with a physical intersex condition.</b><br /># The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning. </i><br /><br />As for numbers, ISNA lists: Total number of people receiving surgery to “normalize” genital appearance - one or two in 1,000 births<br /><br />Or about 1 in 10 of those with an Intersex condition.<br /><br />1 in 10 of those with 46XX CAH identify as male - and are often brought up that way. Figures from AISSGA also state that about 1 in 10 AIS people have "gender issues". <br /><br />You are correct that some psychologists (NOT endocrinologists!) - notably Leonard Sax say <i>"A definition of intersex which encompasses individuals who are phenotypically indistinguishable from normal is likely to confuse both clinicians and patients."</i> but this is an ontological debate about words, not a medical one. (Journal of Sex Research, August, 2002)Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-2757986481981080152011-03-29T06:47:08.469+11:002011-03-29T06:47:08.469+11:00The WHO??? Geeez...
There is link after link afte...The WHO??? Geeez...<br /><br />There is link after link after link on the net by experts in the field that say (1) most who are intersex have no idea they are intersex, (2) the vast majority of those who are intersex are perfectly content in their birth assigned sex/gender and are no more prone to wanting to change their birth assigned gender than anyone else. Few who are intersex are so anatomically intersex that they undergo surgery in infancy. In spite of most intersex conditions being chromosomal and not anatomical, many endocrinologists don't even consider chromosomal abnormalities in and of itself intersex at all. Surely you know this...in lieu of all of the research you've done you <i>have</i> to know this.<br /><br />Being intersexed does not predispose one to want to change their sex.<br /><br />You saying you are not "trans" because you <i>are</i> intersex is tantamount to me saying I'm not "trans" because I'm <i>not</i> intersexed.Susanhttp://tgnonsense.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-20655683728399456622011-03-28T19:20:27.898+11:002011-03-28T19:20:27.898+11:00The rate of "gender issues" in the gener...The rate of "gender issues" in the general population is about 1 in 3000.<br /><br />The rate amongst Intersexed people is more like 1 in 10, often due to them being surgically assigned the wrong sex when young.<br /><br />You're right when you say that most IS people don't have them; wrong when you say that there's no greater rate than in the general population.Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-71813579474745995152011-03-28T19:17:31.625+11:002011-03-28T19:17:31.625+11:00Take that up with the WHO and the ICD-10:
Transse...Take that up with the WHO and the ICD-10:<br /><br />Transsexualism (F64.0) has three criteria:<br /><br /> 1. The desire to live and be accepted as a member of the opposite sex, usually accompanied by the wish to make his or her body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatment<br /><br /> 2. The transsexual identity has been present persistently for at least two years<br /><br /> 3. The disorder is not a symptom of another mental disorder or a chromosomal abnormality <br /><br />I'm excluded by criterion #3.Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5573426.post-83399318288318181212011-03-28T15:44:01.636+11:002011-03-28T15:44:01.636+11:00Of course you're "trans". Being int...Of course you're "trans". Being intersexed, if that is indeed what you are, doesn't exclude (nor include) you from being "trans." You know as well as I do that most intersex people are quite content with their assigned sex and are no more apt to be either gay or "trans" than anyone else. Why do you insist on using intersex as an apology for being transsexual? You may be intersex but you are most certainly "trans."Susanhttp://tgnonsense.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.com