Wednesday, 15 October 2008

Simply the Best

Rarely, you see a article that exemplifies good journalism. An article that delves beneath the superficial, that doesn't tell just one side of the story. An article that is neither overly speculative, nor blindly adheres to long discredited notions. One that is up-to-date.

Such an article is A Boy's Life by Hanna Rosin, in the Atlantic Monthly. It is an article, in fact I'd say it is the definitive article, about Transgendered Children.

Some Highlights:
Dr. Peggy Cohen-Kettenis, who runs the main clinic in the Netherlands, has seen the average age of her patients plummet since 2002. “We used to get calls mostly from parents who were concerned about their children being gay,” says Catherine Tuerk, who since 1998 has run a support network for parents of children with gender-variant behavior, out of Children’s National Medical Center in Washington, D.C. “Now about 90 percent of our calls are from parents with some concern that their child may be transgender.”
...
It took the gay-rights movement 30 years to shift from the Stonewall riots to gay marriage; now its transgender wing, long considered the most subversive, is striving for suburban normalcy too. The change is fuel‑ed mostly by a community of parents who, like many parents of this generation, are open to letting even preschool children define their own needs. Faced with skeptical neighbors and school officials, parents at the conference discussed how to use the kind of quasi-therapeutic language that, these days, inspires deference: tell the school the child has a “medical condition” or a “hormonal imbalance” that can be treated later, suggested a conference speaker, Kim Pearson; using terms like gender-­identity disorder or birth defect would be going too far, she advised. The point was to take the situation out of the realm of deep pathology or mental illness, while at the same time separating it from voluntary behavior, and to put it into the idiom of garden-variety “challenge.” As one father told me, “Between all the kids with language problems and learning disabilities and peanut allergies, the school doesn’t know who to worry about first.”
...
At the conference, blockers were the hot topic. One mother who’d found out about them too late cried, “The guilt I feel is overwhelming.” The preteens sized each other up for signs of the magic drug, the way other teens might look for hip, expensive jeans: a 16-year-old (natal) girl, shirtless, with no sign of breasts; a 17-year-old (natal) boy with a face as smooth as Brandon’s. “Is there anybody out there,” asked Dr. Nick Gorton, a physician and trans-man from California, addressing a room full of older transsexuals, “who would not have taken the shot if it had been offered?” No one raised a hand.
...
Today, the notion that gender is purely a social construction seems nearly as outmoded as bra-burning or free love. Feminist theory is pivoting with the rest of the culture, and is locating the key to identity in genetics and the workings of the brain. In the new conventional wisdom, we are all pre-wired for many things previously thought to be in the realm of upbringing, choice, or subjective experience: happiness, religious awakening, cheating, a love of chocolate. Behaviors are fundamental unless we are chemically altered. Louann Brizendine, in her 2006 best-selling book, The Female Brain, claims that everything from empathy to chattiness to poor spatial reasoning is “hardwired into the brains of women.” Dr. Milton Diamond, an expert on human sexuality at the University of Hawaii and long the intellectual nemesis of Money, encapsulated this view in an interview on the BBC in 1980, when it was becoming clear that Money’s experiment was failing: “Maybe we really have to think … that we don’t come to this world neutral; that we come to this world with some degree of maleness and femaleness which will transcend whatever the society wants to put into [us].”

Diamond now spends his time collecting case studies of transsexuals who have a twin, to see how often both twins have transitioned to the opposite sex. To him, these cases are a “confirmation” that “the biggest sex organ is not between the legs but between the ears.” For many gender biologists like Diamond, transgender children now serve the same allegorical purpose that David Reimer once did, but they support the opposite conclusion: they are seen as living proof that “gender identity is influenced by some innate or immutable factors,” writes Melissa Hines, the author of Brain Gender.

This is the strange place in which transsexuals have found themselves. For years, they’ve been at the extreme edges of transgressive sexual politics. But now children like Brandon are being used to paint a more conventional picture: before they have much time to be shaped by experience, before they know their sexual orientation, even in defiance of their bodies, children can know their gender, from the firings of neurons deep within their brains. What better rebuke to the Our Bodies, Ourselves era of feminism than the notion that even the body is dispensable, that the hard nugget of difference lies even deeper?
...
According to Dr. Peggy Cohen-Kettenis, the psychologist who heads the Dutch clinic, no case of a child stopping the blockers and changing course has yet been reported.

This suggests one of two things: either the screening is excellent, or once a child begins, he or she is set firmly on the path to medical intervention. “Adolescents may consider this step a guarantee of sex reassignment,” wrote Cohen-Kettenis, “and it could make them therefore less rather than more inclined to engage in introspection.” In the Netherlands, clinicians try to guard against this with an extensive diagnostic protocol, including testing and many sessions “to confirm that the desire for treatment is very persistent,” before starting the blockers.
As I said, both sides of the story.

And some issues which will come as no surprise to readers of this blog.
“Are we expecting to find some biological component [to gender identity]?” asks Vilain. “Certainly I am. But my hunch is, it’s going to be mild. My hunch is that sexual orientation is probably much more hardwired than gender identity. I’m not saying [gender identity is] entirely determined by the social environment. I’m just saying that it’s much more malleable.”
I doubt that he's read my article that came to exactly the same conclusion, but yes, I agree. That's what the data indicates.
Vilain has spent his career working with intersex patients, who are born with the anatomy of both sexes. He says his hardest job is to persuade the parents to leave the genitals ambiguous and wait until the child has grown up, and can choose his or her own course. This experience has influenced his views on parents with young transgender kids. “I’m torn here. I’m very ambivalent. I know [the parents] are saying the children are born this way. But I’m still on the fence. I consider the child my patient, not the parents, and I don’t want to alleviate the anxiety of the parents by surgically fixing the child. We don’t know the long-term effects of making these decisions for the child. We’re playing God here, a little bit.”
I've blogged about that too.
Green expected most of the boys in the study to end up as transsexuals, but nothing like that happened. Three-fourths of the 44 boys turned out to be gay or bisexual (Green says a few more have since contacted him and told him they too were gay). Only one became a transsexual. “We can’t tell a pre-gay from a pre-transsexual at 8,” says Green, who recently retired from running the adult gender-identity clinic in England. “Are you helping or hurting a kid by allowing them to live as the other gender? If everyone is caught up in facilitating the thing, then there may be a hell of a lot of pressure to remain that way, regardless of how strongly the kid still feels gender-dysphoric. Who knows? That’s a study that hasn’t found its investigator yet.”
Compare with my own conclusions:
Cross-Gendered (CG) Sexual Orientation is an unsubtle effect, and often associated with cross-gendered behaviour patterns in young children. It appears to be set by pre-natal hormone influences.

CG Gender Identity is also set by pre-natal influences. The effects appear later, and the tell-tale neurology appears after Gender Identity is formed. But the pattern that dictates the later neurological development is just as pre-ordained. It is a more subtle effect that sexual orientation, and many people are essentially Bi-Gendered, and would be able to function in either a male or female role, as circumstances dictate. Relatively few are strongly gendered, but for those that are, it's unchangeable. Just as CG sexual orientation is strongly correlated with CG behaviour in children, CG gender identity is universally(?) associated with CG patterns of thought in children.
About 2/3 of children exhibiting cross-gendered behaviour end up being Gay instead of TS. That's regardless of therapeutic measures, or lack thereof.

And then there's this...
Zucker put me in touch with two of his success stories, a boy and a girl, now both living in the suburbs of Toronto.
...
When I visited the family, John was lazing around with his older brother, idly watching TV and playing video games, dressed in a polo shirt and Abercrombie & Fitch shorts. He said he was glad he’d been through the therapy, “because it made me feel happy,” but that’s about all he would say; for the most part, his mother spoke for him. Recently, John was in the basement watching the Grammys. When Caroline walked downstairs to say good night, she found him draped in a blanket, vamping. He looked up at her, mortified. She held his face and said, “You never have to be embarrassed of the things you say or do around me.” Her position now is that the treatment is “not a cure; this will always be with him”—but also that he has nothing to be ashamed of. About a year ago, John carefully broke the news to his parents that he is gay.
Sure this is a "success", and not denial. Sure it is. And it looks as if I was right about some of Zucker's other "successes", even though I was hoping against hope that I was wrong.
Yet Zucker’s approach has its own disturbing elements. It’s easy to imagine that his methods—steering parents toward removing pink crayons from the box, extolling a patriarchy no one believes in—could instill in some children a sense of shame and a double life. A 2008 study of 25 girls who had been seen in Zucker’s clinic showed positive results; 22 were no longer gender-dysphoric, meaning they were comfortable living as girls. But that doesn’t mean they were happy. I spoke to the mother of one Zucker patient in her late 20s, who said her daughter was repulsed by the thought of a sex change but was still suffering—she’d become an alcoholic, and was cutting herself. “I’d be surprised if she outlived me,” her mother said.
Sometimes I hate having good intuition. Yes, Cassandra was cursed. For this is what I wrote months ago.
Perhaps, and I would like to think this is true, Dr Zucker is correct. That despite all the counter-examples, despite the "gender dysphoria", this boy's brain was adequately malleable to make him into a successful woman. He's trumpeted as a success anyway, not at all gender dysphoric, no desire to change. And just as importantly (to them), Straight too, and not at all lesbian.

Failing that, I would like to think of him as cheerfully insane, much as I was. OK, that would mean being unable to access memories of childhood. For him, that would mean being unable to wear a man's shirt, or anything but the frilliest, most girly clothes he could get, just in case anyone suspected. Frigid, though yearning for love like anyone else, and capable of pleasing his male partner, who he loves dearly. The bit that says that this is all horribly, terribly wrong and perverse, safely locked away in a box in a safe in a room in a sunken ship under the ocean on a planet in a distant galaxy, so he almost never can hear the screaming in his head. No Gender Dysphoria, no siree, not for this guy, er, gal, the idea is absurd! Happy, for you can be in this situation. I know. I've been there. It's not that bad, really (so why are you crying, Zoe?). It doesn't feel bad at the time, anyway, that at least is unquestionably true. You can be highly functional, and no-one suspect, least of all you.

What I fear is that he might be on huge doses of anti-depressants, or alcoholic, or attempting to drown the misery in activities of one sort or another. Promiscuous sex perhaps, to validate his female identity. Suicidally Ideating perhaps. But again, no Gender Dysphoria, for if he showed that, the voices in his head tell him that no-one would love him. Her. Conforming, Bidable, and not standing out.

I don't know which of these is the case. It might be something else entirely. I don't know because it wasn't in the report. A study using basic tests for mental health would have told us about the last condition anyway, though the first two situations would have been indistinguishable.

But you see, compared to whether GD was still present or not, "happiness", "quality of life" or even basic mental health, wasn't considered important. Not worth measuring. And this is my main critique, why I'm inclined to take a very jaundiced view, not important even compared to sexual preference. It appears to be all about conformity.

Now remember just how much interpolation I'm doing. How much guesswork, lacking facts. Humans are good at seeing patterns that don't exist. I'm not objective either.

But it fits all too well. I hope I'm wrong, I hope my wild surmises and conjectures are nowhere near the actuality. I fear I'm right though. People like me are good at intuition. It also is consistent with every single one of the narratives I've heard from literally dozens of Intersexed people who went through the same kind of thing, and similar to the testimony of literally hundreds of TS people I've corresponded with.

I hope someone at Jurassic Clarke can show me that I'm utterly wrong, and it's vastly improbable that I have all the details right anyway. But I think, in the main, it's likely to be all too accurate.
Ah Spit.

I'm not about to join the Zucker Fan Club any time soon. I know he means well, I have immense respect for him as a Scientist, but when you look at his "successes", let alone his failures, his experimentation on children is unethical, and because of the flawed metrics, even Bad Science.

I really wish I'd been wrong, you know? I really wish I wasn't in tears over what he's doing to these kids. I mean, those who are going to "grow out of it" and just become gay adults will do so no matter what. No need to torture them, just to instil dysfunctional conformity in a few.

Anyway, please go and read the whole article. It's simply the best on the subject ever written.

86 comments:

Bad hair days said...

When I was a child I endlessly thought about ways to become a girl. Had I had the internet of today in my youth I would have never had my voice broken and developed male facial features. When I finally learned that hormones could do that with about 15 I seeked medical help, only to be rejected because treatmend was not allowed before 18. What followed where phases of denial and a deep misstrust in the medical community, so that I started with herbal products when I was 25, but I had to grow 36 before I found competent help and really (socially too) did transition.

I'm so happy that help in time gets more and more available. Its, by the way, still no treatment in switzerland. I had the luck of meeting two now grown up girls who ordered their hormones online and did never have to face male puperty. What a difference.

Anonymous said...

How fucking sick. You're all crazy and you were born men and remain men in everything but chemical assault on the body, and name. Your psychological confusion remains too.

This article just confirms what has been clear to me in recent days, the trannies will use pseudoscience and vague unevidenced biological claims to hoodwink society into going along with indulging their psychological problems and allowing to come into full bloom.

For parents to encourage and fuel the psychological problems of their children and to harm growing bodies, is obscene.

And Alan's body didn't change by itself, he took fucking hormones to change it. And at best a superficial change. He is a very sick and selfish man that is going to damage his boy severely by forcing him to grow up without a competent father.

Alan is a social criminal, a bull in the china shop of a young boy's childhood as far as I and billions of others are concerned.

Alan was born a man, and he will die a man, albeit with a brutalized and poisoned, disrupted body.

Alan's body didn't change by itself. He is liar. Most trannies lie, they lie to themselves about reality too... so what's to say Alan wasn't illegally appropriating hormones online for several months before he began getting legal hormone prescriptions? nothing... we have to take his word for it.

And I would never trust a man who can't even be trusted to raise his son in a stable way.

Alan's a sick fuck, and so long as the only identification of your problem is self identifying it, you'll have a hard time convincing the world you've not got a psychological problem.

And all this crap about no test 'yet' is pathetic weasel words. Pigs can't fly 'yet' too.

You're a man, a pathetic one though, and Alan, you stand condemned for robbing a child of his father. You stand condemned.

You are, both mentally ill, and selfish.

It's demonstrable.

A hell of a lot more demonstrable than the false claim that you are a woman.

I'm deeply saddened that I came across your insane blog of lies and more lies... your baseless crap with a never ending cottage industry of shit with a false veneer of 'science'... I'm very saddened that I was made so painfully aware that there is a seven year old boy out there who has had his childhood destroyed by the design of his inept father, who has done nothing to help himself out of his psychological habits and problems. In fact he has irreparably fueled his own fire by crossing lines that ought not be crossed by anyone, let alone with the unethical help of others for a profit.

It's serious problem, and no child should have to put up with such abandonment and abuse as Alan's son will come to realize he was subjected to.

It's very sad to see the mess Alan has made of himself, and his family in full living color on this blog. It has deeply distressed me, it is just a terrible mess, all so needless, and biology didn't make it happen, and what's worse Alan and others didn't stop it from happening. And that forever will be a massive unethical failure.

Alan, where once you could have been a curiosity in libertarian thought, a man who decides to absurdly obsess over falsehoods and convince himself over a very long period of time and become addicted to lying to himself, you might have had the right to turn yourself into a cat, by getting whiskers implanted and tattoos all over your body like some famous internet celebrity has actually done, and that would be your right... but your right to self harm... should have stopped when you robbed your son of his father.

That's an immoral act. Just as if I was to abandon my son, or decide I was a cat and force him to watch me bending over licking a bowl and never providing a father son relationship to him in any other way.

We'd have two things in common, no biological evidence to show the world I was a cat, and along with your no biological evidence to show the world you are organically a woman, or organically changed into a woman.

You're not a woman. Certain criteria, in biology have been laid out to determine what a woman is, and you don't meet them. You never will. Deal with it... oh wait you can't.

That makes you crazy.

There's millions of people out there that have been labeled crazy for life, based on believing something that isn't true just for one day of their lives. You've believed something that isn't true for many years... you're long overdue for some serious reparative therapy. The society should have mandated this before you were allowed to harm another young citizen of the state, your son.

I don't know what you want out of life Alan, but I do know one thing, you're callously prepared to take all you like OUT of your son's life.

And no remorse, who's the psychopath?

You're not a woman, and I'm not a cat. My kid's not going to be losing a father, and gaining a cat.

If your kid isn't a magnet for mental illness, growing up in such a nightmare and minefield, I don't know is.

Of course, you're more than likely to accept a DSM label for this kid within a few years, drug him up relentlessly and harm his body with pseudoscience just as you've harmed you own... jeopardizing your own longevity as you have with unnatural endocrine disruption, jeopardizing your lifespan, ergo your earning potential to support said son, and taking the crippled, maimed, shriveled pathetic version of a father he does have, and risking it all.

Then again, you've shown NO hesitation to risk your own life, and no hesitation to remove essential building blocks from your child's life... you're so reckless and indifferent and addicted to your unnatural thought processes.... your next move is anybody's guess.

Alan, you've done some terrible things... the results of which will play out in time. Mark my words. And remember, to my mind you did deserve tolerating and certain rights, until you made it your business to take things kids deserve and need, away from kids.

When you did that, that was the key marker that made you an immoral pariah.

Before then, you were just the indulgent confused developmentally disabled Alan who was harmless to others, who we could count on to fix the computer. Now, the greatest thing a son could ever count on his father for, is in ruins... and your consciousness willingly made it so.

And for that, you will always stand condemned. And I don't think there is a sapient Creator concerned with human affairs, but if there was... you'd be standing condemned in front of him too.

There is no excuse for taking from a child what he needs, and that is a mother and father. No excuse. Nature didn't take away his father, his father took away his father.

You need to take a good hard look at yourself pal... but then again if you did look at yourself.... you'd find something you'd like to change next time you see your doctor wouldn't you vain piece of shit.

sumptos devil s advocate said...

Yosemite Sam,

If you're just a troll, you're good one; because, on these 2 sentences, I think you're right on:

Faced with skeptical neighbors and school officials, parents at the conference discussed how to use the kind of quasi-therapeutic language that, these days, inspires deference: tell the school the child has a “medical condition” or a “hormonal imbalance” that can be treated later, suggested a conference speaker, Kim Pearson; using terms like gender- identity disorder or birth defect would be going too far, she advised. The point was to take the situation out of the realm of deep pathology or mental illness, while at the same time separating it from voluntary behavior, and to put it into the idiom of garden-variety “challenge.”

Natalie said...

Huh. Didn't even leave a name.
I suppose I, too, should stop feeling ungendered and be what I really am... a man... or wait, maybe a woman. Aww crap - which am I, anyway?

Anonymous said...

Mbr, V ybir lbh.

RadarGrrl said...

Piss off, Anonymous Coward!

Zoe Brain said...

Hi Nat! Don't worry about Yosemite Sam, he probably doesn't believe Swyers syndrome exists. Or that anyone could be Neutrius.

The last words I spoke to the psychologists, by the way, were that although biology affects gender, and gender is more important (and for some, more fraught) than most people believe...

That the important thing is to be a decent human being, no matter what you are. That in comparison, gender isn't important.

Yosemite Sam - maybe you should take that up with my endo and my GP. And with the three different labs that did the blood tests.

If you knew anything about endocrinology, you'd realise that changes like that have to happen over years, not months, if hormones are the only issue. At normal pubertal rates.

What happened to me was quite extraordinary, and can't currently be accounted for. We know of no mechanism that can account for such rapid change.

And for the record, the first time I took hormones was August 5th, 2005. A 50 microgram patch of 17B oestrodiol, and 100mg of Cyproterone Acetate.

Zoe Brain said...

That was a week after I'd been threatened with rape by some drunks for being an obvious "Drag King".

I wasn't passing as male by then. The die was cast.

sumptos devil s advocate said...

Zoe,

Hold on. If your body was already producing female hormones already, and the amounts produced were substantial, why did you need to start taking hormones?

Zoe Brain said...

My metabolism was going haywire, I was losing a pound a day, hot flushes, night sweats, the whole cholesterol-metabolism completely awry.

The idea was to bring the LH and FSH levels to near zero with the Cyp, that would basically do a CTRL-ALT-DEL on the system, and introduce minute amounts of oestrogen to see how I tolerated it.

There was some weird stuff going on with SHBG levels too, and odd somatic changes apart from the feminisation. Chronic psoriasis went away overnight, my eye colour changed due to melanin production zeroing... The only medications I was allowed to take were the HRT and a Statin to reduce the deadly dangerous chronically extreme LDL level. Not even an aspirin, and no grapefruit or other liver-stressor either.

It's conjectured that this condition is usually fatal, but all we can say is "Here Be Dragons", unknown territory. We may have a clue though now, as I'll blog about tomorrow.

Lloyd Flack said...

Yosemite Sam,

Zoe is not lying. I was in regular contact with her when this started happening. I was one of the ones that she confided in. This sort of spontaneous change is a one in several million event but it does happen.

I've known her for too long not to know that she would not delude herself about this sort of thing. Attempting to stop or reverse the physical changes would probably have been lethal. If the testes had not been removed they would almost certainly have turned cancerous. There were pre-cancers there already.

Just because this sort of change makes you uncomfortable is no reason for you to look for an excuse to revel in your own spite. You don't know what you are talking about and refuse to find out. You are an intellectual coward.

Anonymous said...

Hold on. If your body was already producing female hormones already, and the amounts produced were substantial, why did you need to start taking hormones?

Zoe has already answered this well, but it is worthwhile to consider another (well-known) example:

Male amateur weightlifters and bodybuilders who abuse testosterone (and other anabolic steroids) have to live with the unfortunate side effect that their natural testosterone production shuts down - with associated negative effects on their testes, prostate etc. Essentially by overloading their body with testosterone (or similar substances that bind to the same receptors), their brain gets the message "Ok. I have enough testosterone, I don't need to make any more". If such people abuse steroids for long enough, the effects on their reproductive capacity can be permanent.

In Zoe's case, particularly when the most likely hypothesis was a hormone secreting brain tumour, and her hormone and cholesterol levels were utterly wacky, the actual idea of the exercise was to externally provide "the correct amount" of sex hormones (and regulate cholesterol, because the body manufactures sex hormones from cholesterol). In the process this would override / stop Zoe's natural production of hormones, which was a good thing because for whatever reason, Zoe's brain wasn't doing a very good job of regulating correct hormone production.

-Kym Isst

Nica said...

Hi, Zoe.

Hi, Natalie.

Regarding Yosemite Sam's latest post...

I get the very clear sense that Sam is not trolling, but really means what he is writing. What a fascinating look into the mind of such a person!

He is really woodworked into the way-Nature-intended-humans-to-be thingy. I have never read such a powerful and clear exposition of this point of view.

What gives me pause, though, is Sam's patently violent emotion. This person, if they are in real life the way that their writing limns them here, could easily be one of those who brutally beat and kill people like us. It happens almost every day.

How can we protect ourselves against aggressors such as Sam? I think that's the question that needs answering. What do his writings reveal that we can use to protect ourselves from harm by people like him.

Laws? Police? Raising our group consciousness? Learning self-defence?

We can use Sam's hatred for the greater good. But not if people like him kill us first.

sumptos devil s advocate said...

Yosemite Sam would have argued that male hormone replacement therapy would have to have been in the works, to correct the dysfunctional endocrine system. He would ask why female hormones were used instead, or simply assume foul play.

sumptos devil s advocate said...

Nica,

I would agree with you completely, were it not for the fact that Zoe dragged Yosemite Sam over from Dr. Wes's blog, where old Sam was posting vulgar statements accusing the blog owner of malpractice. Sam came over here in response to Zoe's post over there offering condolences for Sam's flames.

Nica said...

Yes, I believe that you are right, SDA. But that treatment has a proven record of failure, doesn't it.

What fascinates me is Sam's total buyin to the idea that anything female is de facto bad. It is a one-way point of view.

This must be why he becomes so viscerally upset and angry when discussing we who have chosen a gender different than that which he argues we are forever bound to by virtue of...I'm not sure what, actually.

But my biggest concern is how we can protect ourselves against violent haters. I think Sam's writing can provide us with some important clues.

Sam's writing boils down to an assault on self. So much of it echoes what I remember growing up as a child and then to a lesser extent throughout so much of my adult life.

I know Sam. I've known Sam all of my life.

Anonymous said...

So instead of getting raped by those who threatened you, you went ahead and raped your son's childhood. Nice.

Your mindset was off from day one. You're sad, sad clown.

And you pathetic 'movement' as evidenced by the quote that another poster has again quoted, from your cited pathetic article on 'trans' kids... about you all hoodwinking people biological sounding language... encapsulates it all.

Endocrine disruptors are well known to be wreaking havoc on our biosphere. Just look that pthalate BPA plastic problem. Just look at any number of potential environmental endocrine disruptions. Your organic contention stands and falls on your NO EVIDENCE of organic gender bending ok fuck head? your fucking thyroid? your fucking nutrition?

You went through puperty in your teens. You're designed to live until 27 like the rest of us and then start to fall apart.

You've got a magical thinking problem.

You've got an unethical approach to your responsibilities to your child, and billions of reasonable successful parents agree.

Ever heard of free will motherfucker?

You are so full of shit you should have been fucking prevented from sticking your dick into a woman eight years ago for sure you dangerous sick cunt.

You're a complete fanatic.

As evidenced by this appalling shit you spout Alan....

"First I better explain what Intersex and Transsex mean.

First, I'll have to explain "Intersex". Although 98.3% of people are born normally male or female, 1.7% aren't, quite.

THIS IS A COMPLETE FALSEHOOD FROM FAUSTINO DYKE WHATEVER THE FUCK HER NAME IS... AN AGENDA PUSHING MENTALLY ILL DYKE WHO HAS A CLEAR INVESTMENT IN DESTROYING GENDER ROLES.

THE ACTUAL INSTANCE OF REAL LEGITIMATE INTERSEX IS 100 TIMES LESS YOU FUCKING LIAR!


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12476264?dopt=Abstract

Of those, about half have trivial, insignificant differences from the norm,

HALF? HALF!? ARE YOU FUCKIN KIDDING ME? TRY FUCKING 99 PERCENT OF THEM ASSHOLE!

but some of the rest have significant differences. Some people are genetically male, but have female bodies, or the reverse. Others have their genes screwed up, so instead of being 46xx (female) or 46xy(male),

LIKE YOU ARE ALAN BY THE WAY! 46XY YOU FUCKING BIG STRAPPING LAD YOU!

they are 47xxy, or even a mix of 46xy and 46xx cells.

Now, I'll explain "What is a Transsexual". Some people -

ONCE AGAIN, YOUR AGENDA IS TO HOOK YOUR WAGON OF POLITICAL AGENDA FOR LEGITIMIZING AND EXCUSING AND NORMALIZING YOUR PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEMS ONTO THOSE WHO HAVE LEGITIMATE ORGANIC BIOLOGY ISSUES, WHICH YOU CAN'T DEMONSTRATE IN YOURSELF, SO YOU ALWAYS BRING THE RARE GENDER BENDER DEFORMITIES UP TO BOLSTER YOUR WEAK CASE FOR YOUR OWN BIOLOGICAL MAGICAL THINKING FOOL...


the Intersexed - have normal bodies, normal neural (brain) development, but cross-gendered genitalia.

HERE YOU SLIP IT IN REAL FAST SO WE BARELY NOTICE HOPEFULLY....


But others have normal bodies, normal genitalia, but cross-gendered brains.

REALLY ALAN? IS THAT SO? WHERE'S THE TEST YOU TAKE TO PROVE THIS HUH? YOU GOING TO SHOW US A 'NORMAL BODY' WHICH I SUPPOSE THE BRAIN IS AN ORGAN OF THE BODY, AND FEMALE AND MALE BRAINS DIFFER IN SIZE AND OTHER MARKERS, SO WHERE IS THIS CROSS GENDERED BRAIN YOU STUPID LYING CUNT? IF WE AUTOPSY YOU NOW? IF WE GIVE YOU AN MRI IS YOUR BRAIN THE SIZE OF YOUR MOTHERS? YOU FUCKING LYING DRAG QUEEN BAD FATHER ASSHOLE!

Genital development happens in the middle of the first trimester, neural development at the end.

JUST ABOVE THROWING A LITTLE SCIENTISTIC CRAP IN TO MAKE YOU SOUND ALL SCIENTIFIC... WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT STATEMENT HAVE TO WITH FUCKING ANYTHING ASSHOLE? IT'S A BULLSHIT STATEMENT ANYWAY... THE BRAIN REGULATES THE FUCKING BODY IN MANY WAYS EARLIER THAN THAT.

Little boys "know" they are boys before age 6, little girls "know" they are girls before age 6 too, and this has nothing to do with their body shape or upbringing, it depends on the neural development that was programmed in long before they were born.

REALLY ASSHOLE? SO IF WE TIED UP A LITTLE BOY AND STUCK A FEEDING TUBE IN HIM, TIED HIM TO TOILET LET'S SAY... AND CHAINED HIM ALONE IN A DARK PITCH BLACK ROOM, HE WOULD KNOW HE IS A MALE OR EVEN HAVE OCCASION TO EVEN CONSIDER GENDER?


Sometimes - about 1 in 500 according to Professor Lynn Conway,

WHO WASN'T BORN INTERSEXED JUST LIKE ALAN WASN'T...

BULLSHIT STATS...

BIASED MENTALLY ILL TRANNIE THAT HE IS AND I AM GLAD THEY TOOK HIS KIDS OFF HIM THEY SHOULD DO THAT TO YOU....

things go wrong to a greater or lesser extent.

WEASEL, NO BIOLOGICAL TEST.

It's possible to end up with a wholly male body, but a female brain,

AH, ISN'T THE BRAIN AN ORGAN OF THE FUCKING BODY!? AND WHERE'S THE FUCKING TEST?


and a female mind.

OH, NOW YOU'RE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE MIND BODY PROBLEM WHEN IT SUITS..... SO IT'S POSSIBLE FOR A PSYCHOTIC TO HAVE A 'BEING CHASED BY THE CIA' MIND.... AND THAT'S IRRATIONAL.... BUT SOMEONE WITHOUT ANY BIOLOGICAL TEST IS ALLOWED TO CLAIM THEY HAVE A 'FEMALE MIND'... FUCK OFF.

The opposite happens too, but as we all start with a basically female template, it's easier to have a glitch that stops the masculinization of a male than to introduce extra masculinization in a female.

EVIDENCE OF YOUR GLITCH ASSHOLE, NOWHERE.

That's why only 1 in 4 transsexuals are "Female to Male", men literally trapped in female bodies.


LITERALLY! GEE! LITERALLY.... LOOK AT ALL THE EVIDENCE WE HAVE TO TAKE LITERALLY! WOW!

YOU'VE EXPLAINED IT! YOU'VE EXPLAINED WHY IN MISANDRIC AGE WITH FATHERLESSNESS AND BROKEN HOMES AND MEDIA WORSHIP OF THE FEMALE YOU'VE EXPLAINED THERE IS NO ENVIRONMENTAL REASON WHY MALES WOULD END UP WITH PSYCHOLOGICAL FETISHES AND PROBLEMS AND WANT TO BE A FEMALE..... WOW! YOU'VE SOLVED IT! ALAN GETS THE NOBEL PRIZE.

Many transsexuals whose "glitch" was partial can live with it, in various degrees of discomfort.

GLITCH IS MEASURABLE NOW? WE HAVE PARTIAL AND FULL AND SLIGHT, ALL DEPENDING ON THE NON EXISTENT TEST RESULTS!


But in at least 1 in 7 cases, or about 1 in 3500 people, the "glitch" is not partial, it's complete.

THE CREATION STORY OF THE TRANSGENDER RELIGION... THE FIAT STATS JUST COME DOWN AND ARE HANDED TO MOSES ON A TABLET WOW! AGAIN, THE MEASURABLE GLITCH! DON'T ARGUE WITH 'PROVEN' ORGANIC BIOLOGY.


These people, normal men or women who happen to have the wrong shaped body for their brains and minds,

NO, NOT NORMAL. IT IS NOT NORMAL TO BELIEVE YOU ARE WOMAN ALAN. OK THEY 'HAVE THE WRONG SHAPED BRAIN (PART OF BODY) FOR THEIR BRAINS AND MINDS. FUCK OFF ALAN.



get a very severe degree of discomfort indeed. And it gets worse with age.

CLEARLY... GIVEN YOU'D THROW AWAY A KID'S NORMAL CHILDHOOD. NEUROSES AND SELF HARM CAN BE VERY UNCOMFORTABLE. WAGING WAR AGAINST NATURE CAN BE VERY UNCOMFORTABLE.

Their brains just don't work very well with the hormonal blood chemistry they have,

YOU MEAN THE ONES WITH THE NORMAL BODIES? OR THE ONES WITH THE NORMAL MINDS? OR THE NORMAL BRAINS? OR THE ONES WHO WERE NOT BORN INTERSEXED? OR THE ONES WHO WHO ARE MENTALLY ILL? BY THE WAY? IF A PSYCHOTIC HAS HALLUCINATIONS HE IS A WOMAN HOW DO WE TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HIM AND YOU? A VAGUE ENDOCRINE DISRUPTION THAT OCCURRED A FEW MONTHS BEFORE YOU BEGAN BUTCHERING YOUR BODY? AND NORMAL GENITALS AND FERTILITY?


and their instinctive behavior is all wrong.

AHH!! 'BEHAVIOR' NOW YOUR BEHAVIOR IS WRONG... I AGREE COMPLETELY... IT IS VERY ABNORMAL BEHAVIOR. SO THE BRAINS DON'T 'WORK WELL' WITH THE HORMONES THEY HAVE... AND THE BEHAVIOR IS WRONG. HOW BIODETERMINIST OF YOU ALAN... AND HOW INCOHERENT.

Oddly enough, this has little to do with their sexual preference : many such women actually become ostensibly "lesbian" as the result of all the male hormones in their system, and the outside world thinks they're normal, straight males.

AND THEY COULD POSSIBLY SHUT THE FUCK UP AND RAISE A KID AS A FATHER MAYBE? JUST THROWING IT OUT THERE... ALSO WRONG... IT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH SEXUAL PREFERENCE. YOU'VE GOT A FETISH FOR BEING A VAGINA.


There's no "cure" for this congenital condition,

OH MY GOD START A TELETHON! THERE'S ALSO NO 'TEST' FOR THIS 'CONGENITAL CONDITION' EITHER ALAN.


but there is an effective treatment that's got a 97% improvement rate.

AH, CALL ME OLD FASHIONED, BUT 'TREATMENT' IMPLIES 'DISEASE' AND 'DISEASE' NEEDS A DEMONSTRABLE BIOLOGICAL ETIOLOGY AND PREDICTIVE PROGRESSION AND UNDERSTOOD DISEASE MECHANSISM AND TREATMENT NEEDS TO BE TARGETED AT A LESION OR DEFECT THAT IS OBSERVABLE AND AND AND GUESS THIS.... MEASURABLE.


That is to alter the sufferer's body with Hormones,

YOU SAY 'ALTER' I SAY 'POISON', 'DISRUPT', 'PERTURB', GO AGAINST THE NATURAL STATE THAT HOMEOSTASIS HAS OCCURRED IN FOR 47 YEARS OR WHATEVER THE FUCK AGE YOU WERE WHEN YOU TOOK TO YOURSELF WITH GUESSWORK SHOTGUNS YOU LABEL 'TREATMENT'

and largely change it so it conforms to the brain's setup.

HOW FUCKING (AND FUCKING IS BEING YELLED AT THE SCREEN BY ME) HOW FUCKING PSEUDOSCIENTIFIC ALAN!

But HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy)

HIT HORMONE INVASION TERRORIZING, YOU'RE NOT 'REPLACING' ANYTHING ALAN... YOU'RE FUCKING CREATING AN ABERRANT STATE THAT NEVER EXISTED IN THE HISTORY OF ALAN'S BODY EVER! YOU'RE NOT RESTORING TO A PREVIOUSLY SEEN LEVEL OR REPLACING FUCKING ANYTHING. I REPLACE A FUCKING TOILET ROLL TO THE HOLDER WHEN IT'S DONE... AND ANOTHER TOILET ROLL USED TO BE THERE.... YOU'RE SO DISHONEST YOU NEED TO BE FUCKING SLAPPED IN THE FACE WITH A COLD FISH ALAN!

can only do so much, some surgical "detail work" is usually required so that the sufferer can look normal,

SUFFERER... AGAIN... PSYCHOLOGICAL SUFFERER MAYBE.... NO OTHER DEFECT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED... A DEFECT SERIOUS OR MINOR... LET ALONE SERIOUS ENOUGH TO DISRUPT THE ENTIRE ORGANISM WITH POISONOUS GUESSWORK AND FUCKING PATHETIC BULLSHIT 'SURGERY'... AND GOOD LUCK LOOKING NORMAL... HOW'S THAT WORKING OUT FOR YOU? I'LL TELL YOU YOU LOOK SOME BROKE ASS MICHAEL JACKSON.

and resume their place in society, but as a member of the opposite sex.

AND AS A MAN WHO HAS ROBBED A CHILD OF HIS FATHER.

The one they've always truly been, inside, since long before their birth.

THEY 'BELIEVE' THEY'VE BEEN.... THAT'S ABOUT ALL YOU CAN ESTABLISH IN THE ABSENCE OF ANY FUCKING EVIDENCE. AND IN THE FACE OF OVERWHELMING 46XY CHROMOSOMES, FULLY GROWN AND BABY MAKING DICK AND BALLS, JUST FUCK OFF.


It's just a minor, and quite common, congenital abnormality.

MINOR! TELL THAT TO THE FATHERLESS KID YOU ASSHOLE! MINOR? FUCKING HELL. MINOR AND YOU'RE PERTURBING YOUR ENDOCRINE SYSTEM IN BLANKET WAY! MINOR! MINOR AND YOU'RE HAVING YOUR FUCKING ADAM'S APPLE SHAVED THE FUCK DOWN! MINOR AND YOU'RE REENGINEERING EVERYONE YOU'VE EVER KNOWN'S CONCEPTION OF YOU. JESUS ALAN.


Unfortunately, it has far-reaching societal effects.

NO, 'IT' DOESN'T ALAN.... THE NEEDLESS BODILY ASSAULT ON YOUR OWN BODY, THE SELF HARM AND PSYCHOLOGICAL CONFUSION DO...


Today, the problem is often picked up early enough so that intervention occurs during or shortly after puberty.

AND YOU DARE TALK ABOUT INFORMED CONSENT AND HUMAN RIGHTS WHEN YOU ALLOW A MINOR WITHOUT INTERSEX TO FUCK UP HIS BODY WITH DRUGS AND KNIVES.


But our knowledge of this syndrome is relatively recent,

SYNDROME IS A WORD THAT GETS TROTTED OUT NOW HUH?

and due to the maternal instinct, a lot of transsexual women (those with male bodies) who were born in the 40's, 50's, 60's or even 70's are married and with children.

NO DUE TO THEM HAVING NORMAL WORKING DICKS IS THE REASON THEY HAVE CHILDREN, THE REASON THEY HAVE CHILDREN IS BECAUSE THEY ARE MEN, AND THEY FUCKED WOMEN. THIS MATERNAL INSTINCT, IS THERE A TEST FOR THAT? OR IS THAT JUST PART OF YOUR FANTASY ABOUT DOLL HOUSES AND TOY BABIES IN PRAMS.


As the discomfort gets worse with age, many are forced to "transition"

WELL YOU CALL IT THAT, THAT'S THE MARKETING LANGUAGE, BUT BIOLOGY DICTATES YOU'RE A MAN AND CANNOT CHANGE THIS... YOU CAN ONLY MAKE YOURSELF INTO A CUT UP HORMONE JACKED INFERTILE SAD CLOWN WITH MAKEUP ON. SO THE STANDARD MALE MIDLIFE CRISIS IS WORSE IN SEVERE NEUROTICS WITH BAD CHILDHOODS AND CONFUSED PSYCHOSES REGARDING GENDER? DOESN'T SURPRISE ANYONE.

at average age 45 no matter what the effect on their loved ones or careers, or suffer permanent and crippling psychological damage.

OK SO WHO DO I PSYCHOLOGICALLY DAMAGE? ME? WHO IS ALREADY DAMAGED? OR DO I DAMAGE MY KID? I THINK I'LL DAMAGE MY KID. I THINK I'LL CRIPPLE MY KID. GOOD CHOICE.



But 45 is an average, some can last till 60, others have to transition before 30."

YEAH IT'S AN AVERAGE, JUST LIKE YOU'RE ARGUMENT AND EVIDENCE IS PRETTY AVERAGE, AS IS YOUR COSMETIC SURGERY.


YOU ARE SO FUCKING INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST ALAN.

IF I WERE BORN INTERSEXED... WITH DEFORMED COCK AND BALLS OR A DEFORMED CUNT MIXTURE OF THE TWO CUNT AND DICK... AND HENCE DEFORMED ENDOCRINE SHIT GOING ON.....

I'D BE COMPLETELY OFFENDED THAT PSYCHOLOGICAL WHACK JOBS LIKE YOU ARE MAKING LAME ATTEMPTS TO HOOK THEIR WAGON TO THOSE WITH A REAL DISEASE AND GET A FREE RIDE.

YOU'RE COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY A RUDDERLESS HUMAN BEING JUST ADMIT IT. YOU LIE AND HOODWINK, WEASEL AND APPROPRIATE, YOU MEDICALIZE AND BIOLOGICALIZE ALL WITH THE MOST PISS POOR PATHETIC AMOUNT OF ALAN SPECIFIC BIOLOGICAL EVIDENCE... YOU SPOUT FAILED STATS, BIASED LIES, THE 1.7 % LIE.... AND MANY OTHERS... YOU GET UP IN FRONT OF PSYCHOLOGY STUDENTS.... AND LIE TO THEM.... YOU LIE TO YOUR SON NO DOUBT.... YOU LIE TO YOURSELF.... YOU'VE SPENT A LONG TIME.... WITHOUT CHALLENGE...CRAWLING IN THE NIGHT ACROSS THE INTERNET CHERRY PICKING ANY VAGUE 'IN' YOU MIGHT HAVE TO HITCH YOUR WAGON TO THE ORGANICALLY AFFLICTED INTERSEX PEOPLE. YOU'RE NOT ONE OF THEM ALAN. IT'S OFFENSIVE FOR YOU TO EXPLAIN AWAY YOUR PSYCHOLOGICAL INSTABILITY AND FREE WILL DENIAL BY THESE FALSE HALF ASSED POSITIONS YOU SEEM TO HAVE CULTIVATED.

YOU ARE COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY A FRAUD DRESSED IN SYNTHETIC ESTROGEN AND ROUGE. A COMPLETE, AND UTTER, SORRY, DIMINISHED, HALF LIVING SAD CLOWN... WHO WORST OF ALL IS DENYING A CHILD A FATHER.

A MAN SO EMOTIONALLY UPSET AND UNSTABLE AS YOURSELF AT AGE 43 NO DOUBT WAS... HAD NO BUSINESS HAVING UNPROTECTED SEX WITH ANY WOMAN ON THIS PLANET.

BILLIONS AGREE.

ALAN... YOU'VE FUCKED YOURSELF UP BIG TIME. YOU ARE DEMONSTRABLY A THREAT TO YOURSELF AND OTHERS.

Nica said...

I see, SDA.

Regardless of how this discussion started, though, I don't think that Sam is purely trolling. I think that Sam really means what he is writing. I have known Sam-like males and the environment they create all of my life. That environment is all around us. People like us are a direct threat to the most basic assumptions underpinning Sam's world.

Nica said...

OMG!

I wonder if Sam himself, or someone in his family, is or was physically intersexed. He seems to allow that as the only legitimate reason for medical intervention regarding gender.

Sam's use of the word 'misandric' caught my eye, and his lamenting the loss of the father-to-son relationship keeps reappearing as an indictment.

Is Sam really at heart a shining defender of maledom and upholder of Patriarchy? He condemns the loss of father, the dereliction of fatherly duty to inculcate the son in the ways of the dominent gender.

The greatest possible loss, a loss of his son's birthright?

Hmmmmmmm...

This is very much about Sam and not so much about Zoe, I think. And that's OK, except for the intent to harm and intimidate. This seems to be extremely personal to Sam.

Anonymous said...

Sam believes that transsexualism is a non-psychological problem which can be caused by toxins in the environment (think DiEthylStilbestrol).

Endocrine disruptors are well known to be wreaking havoc on our biosphere. Just look that pthalate BPA plastic problem. Just look at any number of potential environmental endocrine disruptions.
Yep, it happens in frogs, fish, barnacles, mice and humans as well.

Your organic contention stands and falls on your NO EVIDENCE of organic gender bending ok fuck head?
You contradict your previous sentence where you were stating there *was* an organic cause of 'gender bending'.

-Kim

Bad hair days said...

Hallo Yosemite,

>REALLY ALAN? IS THAT SO? WHERE'S THE TEST YOU TAKE TO PROVE THIS HUH? YOU GOING TO SHOW US A 'NORMAL BODY' WHICH I SUPPOSE THE BRAIN IS AN ORGAN OF THE BODY, AND FEMALE AND MALE BRAINS DIFFER IN SIZE AND OTHER MARKERS, SO WHERE IS THIS CROSS GENDERED BRAIN YOU STUPID LYING CUNT? IF WE AUTOPSY YOU NOW? IF WE GIVE YOU AN MRI IS YOUR BRAIN THE SIZE OF YOUR MOTHERS? YOU FUCKING LYING DRAG QUEEN BAD FATHER ASSHOLE!

This might help you (think you will need a translation tool)

http://duepublico.uni-duisburg-essen.de/servlets/DerivateServlet/Derivate-18593/Dissertation_EvaKrause.pdf

PS: Zoƫ, that might interesst you too

Not only the Nucleus Bed, the whole Brain works female in m2f diagnosed, pre hrt women.

Sarah
PS: Still no comment on my blogs

Anonymous said...

FURTHERMORE...

"These people, normal men or women who happen to have the wrong shaped body for their brains and minds,"


OK, SO THE PSYCHOTIC HAS THE WRONG SHAPED UNIVERSE WHERE THE CIA ISN'T CHASING AFTER HIM.

IT'S THE 'OBJECT' THAT THE 'SUBJECT' IS ANECDOTALLY REPORTING EXISTS THAT GETS THE BLAME, EVEN IF YOUR BODY CANNOT BE DEMONSTRATED TO BE FEMALE OR IF THE CIA CANNOT DEMONSTRABLY BE SHOWN TO BE CHASING HIM.... THAT'S CLASSIFIED I SUPPOSE.... I SUPPOSE YOUR EVIDENCE IS CLASSIFIED TOO HUH YOU CRAZY?

BLAME THE BODY, BLAME NATURE, BLAME THE CIA, THERE IS INSECTS CRAWLING ALL OVER MY SKIN BUT YOU CAN'T SEE THEM, I'M ITCHING AND STRATCHING THE CRAWLING INSECTS UNDER MY SKIN, I'M DRAWING BLOOD NOW, I'M WEARING MY FLESH DOWN TO THE BONE, AND I'M NOT CRAZY... I'M NOT... THERE REALLY IS INSECTS THERE.... WE JUST HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL FMRIs GET MORE ADVANCED IN 50 YEARS I PROMISE! YOU'LL SEE I'M NOT CRAZY! I PROMISE!

I AM A WOMAN DOCTOR, ALL IN NEED IS FOR YOU TO CUT MY COCK AND BALLS OFF AND LASER OFF MY HAIRS YOU SEE... THE INSECTS UNDER MY SKIN HAVE BEEN BUILDING A SECRET TEMPLE AND MOVING CELLS AROUND UNDERNEATH MY SKIN, THEY SECRETLY BUILT A PENIS BETWEEN MY LEGS WHEN I WAS IN THE WHOMB TO THROW ME OFF THE SCENT. THEY ARE THE DEVIL YOU KNOW... THEY WANTED ME TO SUFFER AND CRAWL IN MY OWN SKIN AND NOT FIT INTO MY OWN SKIN UNTIL I WAS NEARLY 50 WHEN YOU KINDLY BUTCHERED ME WITH A KNIFE....

I'M A CAT DOCTOR. I'M A WOMAN DOCTOR. I'M A TARGET FOR C.I.A ASSASSINS DOCTOR. I NEED 'TREATMENT' TO CHANGE MY IDENTITY TO A WOMAN SO THE CIA DOESN'T FIND ME.

BUT DOCTOR, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE I READ ABOUT IN THE LITERATURE, WHO REALLY ARE BEING CHASED BY THE C.I.A, THEY ARE REAL, AND THEY HAVE ALL THE HALLMARKS OF BEING CHASED BY THE C.I.A.... IF I HAVE SAY 1 18000TH OF THE HALLMARKS THEY HAVE, IT PROVES I AM BEING CHASED BY THE CIA, FOR INSTANCE IF I AM SCARED AND SWEATING IN FEAR, IT MEANS I AM BEING CHASED BY THE CIA.

YOU ARE MENTALLY ILL ALAN. IT IS JUST SAD YOU HAD GO STICKING YOUR DICK IN YOUR SON'S HEARSE... BECAUSE HE WAS BORN DEAD.

DID YOU KEEP YOUR DICK? DID YOU LIKE KEEP IT IN A JAR OF ALCOHOL ON THE MANTLE PIECE FOR OLD TIMES SAKE?

THE ONLY REASON THE DOCS TOUCHED YOU IS BECAUSE YOU'RE A PSYCHO AND LIKELY TO SELF TERMINATE OF YOU WERE PREVENTED FROM SIMPLE SELF HARM, A LITTLE NON LETHAL SELF HARM WAS PREFERABLE TO SELF TERMINATION.

"The term transsexuality is somewhat confused in many people's minds with the terms homosexuality and transvestism. These three topics vary in complexity and dynamics for male and female participants. To make this discussion easier to delineate, I will initially deal with males, and leave the topics related to females for a later exploration.

Simple direct definitions are: 1. Homosexuality -- primary sexual attraction for members of the same sex by adults; 2. Transvestism - cross-gender dressing to improve sexual gratification and/ or reduce anxiety; 3. Transsexuality -- believing one's body is of the wrong sex (e.g. "externally I am a male who inside is really a woman that needs to be 'changed' surgically and hormonally.").

Homosexuality has many forms of expression. The essential element is the emotional and psychological conception of an adult that their primary sexual gratification would be in some sexual activity with a member of the same sex. This does not require any actual activity in fulfilling that desire. As with any major psychological emotional (dynamic) force in an adult, you can have a variety of manifestations. The expression of homosexuality is determined by two basic elements: 1. What that particular society supports or restricts, and 2. The degree of psychological health of the individual.

Transvestism is not just cross-dressing. Cross-dressing, when a male dresses as a female, can be part of a Halloween party, or some theatrical performance. It can be a way of seducing or manipulating some male to participate sexually with them who has no interest in homosexuality and thinks they're having some romantic activity with a female. Wearing makeup and some effeminate style of attire (but still clearly being a male) also is not transvestism.

In fact, none of the preceding is transvestism. Transvestism involves an emotional need that requires a male to wear female attire to meet a sexual need or reduce one's anxiety. There are various forms of transvestism which can be either heterosexual or homosexual. To name just two forms (of many) would be: 1. A heterosexual male who will wear a woman's brassiere or panties while having some romantic activity with a woman, and 2. A married man with children who, with the help and support of his wife, will on occasion completely dress himself as a woman (makeup, wig, etc.). We even sometimes see conventions of such people who gather together with similar interests and activities. These men have no interest in functioning homosexually -- either in their fantasies and least of all, in their sexual behavior.

An adult man who is psychologically a transsexual is in a different category with a different expression of psychological problems. Transsexuality is far from rare and therefore deserves some discussion. As a psychiatrist and psychoanalyst, I have seen transsexual patients in my private practice as well as while working as a consultant to a university and medical school program which evaluated and "treated" these individuals (at least, with surgery and hormone replacement).

Significant Numbers Of Homosexuals Seek Sex Changes

There are a significant number of male homosexuals who would like to be a female with a penis. There are others who would like to be completely transformed into a female, but can't arrange to have such a complex surgical procedure. Both groups will obtain hormones from various sources; often it will be illegally from a pharmacy.

The transsexual male who was not part of a university/medical school treatment program, will often take hormone treatment (self-prescribed and administered), and play a feminine role with unsuspecting heterosexual males (often as a prostitute). They will play the part as if they are a passive feminine object. Their approach has many masochistic behavioral qualities. However, their thinking about how they are tricking, fooling and using others has a clearly sadistic dynamic as well. Their histories almost invariably demonstrate a mother figure who is at least domineering, manipulative and controlling.

Such men have little to no relationship with their parents. Unfortunately, their lifestyle has a clearly self-destructive quality. These individuals usually do not stay in any adequate psychotherapy program (i.e., once per week for at least three months). They also have significant problems in certain areas of reality perception; therefore, long-term intensive therapy is the best choice, and long-term supportive therapy with medication is the bare minimum required to prevent them from destroying themselves.

There is a smaller group of transsexuals that includes those individuals who have been involved with a university-sponsored, medical-school treatment program. They have had much more appropriate study and evaluation. In general, what takes place is that the individual applies to the program, and agrees to participate with full disclosure to one or more psychiatrists, social workers, psychologists and various medical specialists during the entire extended period of evaluation, treatment and follow-up. This usually will extend for about one year before surgical treatment is carried out. No medical or surgical intervention is begun until there is months-long prior evaluation and clearance.

My clinical experience in participating with the Wayne State University program has been corroborated by others at the University, as well as at Johns Hopkins University--a medical school even larger and with a longer-lasting program. The following will be a summary description of my experience that is typical of the cases seen at both of these university programs.

A single male in his middle 20's to early 30's with at least one college degree and some financial and professional success applies to the program. He has had some homosexual experience with partial gratification. He has attempted heterosexual activity with little sexual gratification, if any. His chief complaint is that as long as he can remember he has never felt that his body was "right." By the time he got to be an older teenager, he was certain that something was wrong with his body. The more he thought about it and explored the subject, the more he believed that he was actually a woman inside that needed to somehow come out and be expressed.

Cross-dressing, however, did not make him feel comfortable. He recognized that cross-dressing could produce problems for him socially and economically, so he avoided it.

He is a well-spoken and reasonable, dependable historian regarding the details he reports in all areas -- except how he feels about himself in terms of his gender and his body image. He describes himself as somehow feeling that something inside is trying to come out; that somehow or other, the "real self" is being restricted and limited. More and more "it" is conceived as the woman inside him who has somehow always been there. He thinks that some mistake in genetic expression or development (in some not understood way) has prevented this true womanly self from being expressed. It is as if the real woman inside of him is imprisoned.

This individual is not passive and effeminate in bearing, carriage, or in his approach to life. He is assertive and successful, and competitive socially and intellectually as a man (except in his pursuit of female companionship). He is convinced that he is a woman who somehow or other is trapped in a man's body. His external genitalia, he believes, are an impediment. He wants the body configuration and genitalia to be that of a woman. He desires the full quality of being a woman with all her curves and her qualities.

His discussion is not irrational. His desires, wishes and self-concept on a feeling level are presented in a logical manner. He does not have any scientific proof of his position; he "just knows" that he was meant to be a woman.

All tests by psychologists and psychiatrists in testing his judgment of reality (except in his body image) are within normal limits. There is no evidence of psychosis or any significant problems in any other area than his body image (related to gender only). He is cooperative and patient and helpful in his manner. His only area of insistence is concerning his belief about his body and the need to become a woman. He is not afraid of psychological and psychiatric evaluation. However, he is not interested in intensive psychoanalytic/psychotherapy for a period of months or years. He firmly believes that his problem is not psychological but that it is truly on an organic basis.

After the initial phase of evaluation and study, the patient is instructed to begin dressing himself and living his life (gradually more and more) as a woman. Despite the physical, social and economic discomforts, he is positive and cooperative in every way in the program.

During this entire period, the patient is followed by the medical and surgical teams and by the psychiatrist. This follow-up continues during each phase of the program, including the follow-up period after the completion of all surgical and hormonal treatment. The next phase is the beginning of hormone replacement. This is followed by the addition of surgical change of the perineum from that of a male to a female with a vagina. To do so, procedures are done to form it into a receptive organ with lubrication. This is followed by surgical intervention (if needed, usually) for breast enhancement, etc.

For a period of time after surgery, there is less tension and discomfort psychologically experienced by the patient. He begins to feel better about himself and hopeful about his future as a woman. Upon completion of the program and taking on a new life (which usually includes a legal change of his name), he feels relieved and hopeful and eager to continue his relationship in the follow-up part of this research.

Between six months to two years following the completion and healing of the surgery, the surgeons begin to request more evaluations from the psychiatric division of this program. The surgeons do not understand what is transpiring because the patient is now asking for more surgery.

During the entire pre-surgical treatment the only psychological problems that were clearly defined were related to body image. This is not insignificant from a psychodynamic standpoint. It was considered understandable as a logical response of somebody with this "organic" problem. Since there was no obvious psychological break with reality in any other area, the program continued with each individual.

However, now the surgeons and other medical team members begin to observe that although this patient is now considered a woman, he isn't satisfied with the job that was done. He feels that he now needs something more from medical science. He needs the size or shape of his calves, his hips, his arms or his breasts, etc. "improved." More and more it becomes apparent that no matter how successful the procedure and continued hormone replacement have been, it seems that each patient still feels that something is lacking -- that though they were now a woman, it somehow isn't enough.

However, after some minor attempts at surgical assistance by surgeons and endocrinologists, the surgeons finally refuse to do any more. In their judgment, nothing further should or could be done.

Typically, the surgeons were all pleased initially with the success of their transformation of a man into a nice--if not a beautiful--young woman. Now, the medical staff becomes dissatisfied with the patient's dissatisfaction, and they turn the case back to the psychiatric division to "solve" the problem.

The Problem Is Psychological, Not Organic

At this point in the process, I, along with other psychoanalyst colleagues, must tell the surgeons that the disturbed body image was not an organic at all, but was strictly a psychological problem. It could not be solved by organic manipulation (surgery, hormones), no matter how well-intentioned or brilliantly successful it was done.

In psychologically evaluating any patient, it is always important to understand how the patient sees himself. There are certainly age variations as well as gender and cultural elements involved in this evaluation. However, when an adult who is normal in appearance and functioning believes there is something ugly or defective in their appearance that needs to be changed, it is clear that there is a psychological problem of some significance.

The more pervasive and extensive is this misperception of oneself, the more significant is the psychological problem. The more the patient is willing to do extensive surgical intervention (especially when it is destructive), the more serious is the psychological problem. It may not be psychosis. It may not require psychiatric hospitalization. But the significance of the psychological difficulty should not be minimized by a patient's seeming success, socially and professionally, in other areas. This principle of isolated significant psychopathology indicating serious psychological problems (despite their ability to function in all other areas of life) is well known psychiatrically, historically, and by the judiciary.

This conclusion became so well established at Wayne State University that the program was eventually discontinued. The much larger and more extensive program at Johns Hopkins University and medical school in Baltimore, Maryland was discontinued for the same reason. [See Dr. Paul McHugh's essay on his experience at Johns Hopkins.]

The psychological problems that are focused on issues related to gender need to be better understood -- not denied.


AND KIM YOU STUPID CUNT, 'ORGANIC' WOULD NOT INCLUDE CHEMICALS LIKE PTHALATES AND OTHER ENVIRONMENTAL POLLUTANTS YOU PIECE OF SHIT. YOU'RE COMPLETELY WRONG. THAT SENTENCE DID NOT CONTRADICT ANYTHING... YOU FUCKING IDIOT TO CLAIM YOU ARE ORGANICALLY A PARTICULAR GENDER REQUIRES GENETIC FUCKING EVIDENCE AND PHENOTYPIC EVIDENCE YOU PIECE OF WASTED SHIT.

AND TO THE FUCKING 'PATRIARCHY' CLOWN... YOUR PATHETIC PSYCHOANALYZING OF ME, AND THE SO CALLED 'PATRIARCHY' YOU FUCKING MAGGOT... I HAVE BUT THIS TO SAY TO YOU CUNT FACE... THE FATHER SON RELATIONSHIP IS NOT IMPORTANT ACCORDING TO YOU HUH? YOU JUST THROW ANY OLD SURROGATE IN THERE AND IT WORKS OUT FINE HUH? HOW'S THE CRIME STATS FOR KIDS RAISED BY SINGLE MOMS? AND BIRTH RIGHT? THE RIGHT TO A PRESENT, MOTHER AND FATHER, STABLE EMOTIONALLY STABLE MOTHER AND FATHER, NOT SOME PSEUDOMOTHER WHO IS GOING OFF EVERY FEW WEEKS TO GET ANOTHER BODY PART HACKED OFF...

Nica said...

What, only one short paragraph, Sam?!

Surely you can do better.

Or are you already tiring out?

Zoe Brain said...

BHD - Oh Gosh, 57 pages to translate...

In the Mental Rotation test, I scored in the male range, so had assumed that that part of my brain was masculinised. I didn't consider that men and women use different parts of the brain to perform it. I should have done, after all, I blogged on that very subject in another context with other tests. (Kicks self)

I really would like to get the data in my own case, no matter what it shows. It would be useful and would extend our knowledge either way.

Danke Schoen, sehr nett von ihnen.

BTW do you think that Yosemite Sam has twigged yet to the fact that German is spoken not just in Germany, but Austria and Switzerland too? It made his rant on the subject doubly hilarious, and illustrated both his ability to maintain false assumptions, and ignore contrary evidence.

Nica - my word, he hasgotten upset, hasn't he?

I wonder if he realises he's on the Internet equivalent of Candid Camera. This blog - and it comments - are being archived by the Australian National Library. Hia "Deathless prose" will live essentially forever, in musty data archives. His comments will be the source of dissertations about inchoately outraged transphobia for thousands of years. The rubbish that you and I had to put up with in the primitive early 21st century.

I think they'll kak themselves laughing at him too. He may become famous, in a small way.

Hmmm..maybe I should put up a warning about that. That any comment idiocy will live forever.

Battybattybats said...

Ho-ly-crap!

Zoe, my sympathies that you have to suffer the ravings of such a mentally unstable lunatic like that who clearly is deliberately attempting to hurt you emotionally.

I mean considering that studies on same-sex parenthood show little difference on the wellbeing of the child it makes all that 'hurting your son' stuff nothing but a load of bulldust. ignoring as it does the massive amount of duel-sex parenting that is abusive physically, emotionally and sexually. And sure there's the 'single-mum' trope trotted out but the obvious point, that two people can spend more time on a kid than one and can provide better resources than one seems to not have been noticed. And of course the income bracket and joblessness that comes with single parenthood aspects were ignored to...

Ignored? I don't think so. That would be too naiive I think.

That load of frantic, screaming text betrays one real goal, one direct textual intent.

To emotionally hurt, to violate. Judging from the text presented here this person is a text-based-rapist. Trying to make themselves feel better by eliciting deep hurt and suffering upon another. Someone who feels powerless responding by trying to feel powerful by causing a potent lasting effect or consequence on another person.

And abuse of the word unethical! Sheesh! They should get a book on the enlightenment, read about the developmont of Human Rights, try a bit of Aristotle and Socrates and learn what ethics are as seperate from morals!

It's clearly something they need to understand because without producing a good argument about the ethics of the situation to show why something that is different is also harmful even turning oneself into a cat and raising a kid is justifiable but this deliberatly intended-to-hurt raving remains unethical.

If this person is genuinely concerned about the ethics of the matter and the welfare of people then lets discuss that in sensible calm rational philosophical debate and arrive at valid conclusions, however if this is impossible then this person needs to consider a qualified psychologist of their own!

I wonder, if the psychological theories regarding the origins of homophobia hold true then that would make this person almost certainly a repressed self hating transexual or member of another related transgender group! Possibly even not conciously aware of their repression and self-hate.

So maybe what they need to do is go to a charity clothes store, buy some things and start crossdressing.

Anonymous said...

You're not allowed to talk about family values without being pathologized by the most pathological set on the internet apparently... you people love labels, you practically carved your whole identities out of labels and pop psychology and armchair proselytizing... you see all that analytic brain power you confused trannie fucks have.... you need to do something with that analytic mind like pathologize me you see.. because since the analytic mind can't be kept busy analyzing your own biology and the test results therewith... it ends up focusing on the messenger and shooting it....

It's very, very amazing how your particular psychosis, builds up molehills and mountains so slowly to strengthen and perpetuate itself, trapping you. Nobody apart from the core group of your fellow psychotics thinks you are reliable judges of your own gender... you might be given responsibility in jobs, in life generally, but when it comes time to tick a box on a form at the DMV, the rest of society just plays along with your fantasy, whatever whim you have this decade, sort of like a wink and a nudge to a cancer patient who says 'I'm gonna make it I know it' when he goes off to Mexico for a naturopathic remedy.

Wink wink, nudge nudge... you've very, very psychotic when it comes to one thing, you belief about your gender.

Proving you're not psychotic with an ever so slight variance in hormones, coming from a known liar, coming from a guy who is reckless enough to destroy his body and risk death when he has no life threatening disease, coming from a guy with a working cock and balls who sires a poor innocent child.... coming from a guy like this.... and the guy claims he isn't crazy.....


As I said, I'd pity you pathetic cunts if you weren't such a danger to children.

Obsession. Addiction. Mindset. Weak willed. Selfish. Liars. Frauds.

You should be able to make yourself into a makeup troweled ass clown 'chick' with a dick as much as you like... unless a kid needs his father... you evil cunts.

The only consolation in this icky degenerate tale of men destroying their identities, reputations for sanity, futures, and children, is that Alan is now infertile. Thank fucking christ that this cunt is not going to keelhaul another poor kid.

My fucking god, what a blessing that this mess gets to just like out his psychosis for the next 20 odd years and just fuck the hell off out of this china shop.

Nothing can justify the harm you consciously and willingly inflict on your children. There is absolutely not a chance in hell that when I breed, my son could ever end up like you, a psychological fucking fetish queen fantasist clown, masquerading as a real intersex. You're like those people that claim they have cancer to get sympathy. Actually you're worse because they don't threaten the family.

CPS should take away your kid Alan. You don't need to worry the kids at school will never be allowed to come over, and if they are, they won't want to come back.

You'll end up with partial custody after it all breaks down, and then he will voluntarily want to see you less and less. Meanwhile you'll get several different cheek implants, and eyelifts, and never be happy with your brutalized and hacked up visage... you'll cry yourself asleep just as you formerly did.... unsafe in the knowledge, the certain knowledge you'll never be much more than a woman in name alone, a man, a sad old ugly man with a hacked up jacked up body of lies under your ridiculous cross dressing outfit.

Body of lies Alan.

Body of lies, body of screams, body of cries.

Father of rather, rather be free to be 'me' than be father to you I rather my son.

Abandon my son? or abandon my androgyny and psychopathy? What to do what to do how shall I decide I wonder, no test result needed to throw my son asunder

Little boy in boarding school and the kids said I wasn't cool

Mommy was a brutal bitch, but for some reason I got the itch

To try on her panties, now I fight online with the antis

I look like a clown, I was supposed to be born with a vertical smile, but instead I frown.

Cheer up Uncle Al. What's that smell? Is that a new perfume?

Why yes it is nephew, how sweet of you to ask, thankyou!

What's that scar? Why'd you go so far?

I got my adam's apple shaved away people can be deceived that way.

I deceived myself my entire life, women don't ring my bells, now I deceive everyone else.

I like pussy's so much I want one carved into my fucking groin so I can take cock. I want pussy and cock so much I want it all the time, I want a cock, but I don't want it to be mine. I want pussy but it has to be attached to my nervous system, I lie to men and I only got as far as kissed em.

They saw cock, and later they did mock, and cried and cried my makeup away.


I love myself not, doomed to watch myself rot, a sad clown with a gown who turned his life upside down for no reason, it's bodily treason.

I need to know why, any old shit will do, as long as it looks good to another tranny or two.

We can cluster together and huddle up lie together, lying is what we do best, and a comfortable bed we have made, we lie in it from dawn to dusk and even when we dream.

You're a crazy fucking deluded soul, but why do you need your ass hauled over the coal?

Because you dared to have some kids, and they'd be better off dying from SIDS.

Than being watching your neuroses and being forced, you'd be better off getting divorced.

For what short gain it may seem, it will soon fall apart at the seams.

Maybe bird flu will wipe out all trace of man and the suffering will be prevented, if not some more lies you invented...

to sooth and convince you you're not a criminal, all we need is the subliminal.

So if your kid dies, was it worth it to fashion your body of lies?


Dies on the inside that is, denied the right to be like other kids.

I want you to know, in your garden grows, a future so grim, as to reap what you sow, and you know the biggest blow, is the man who says no...

I don't want to be your father no more you damn kid. But if you want to lift the lid, on your own transsex kid... I'd be happy to help, it's not too late, to indoctrinate... and see to it you end up this way...medicare won't pay...but we're having our say... they say the taxpayer said no way... demonstrate a real disease, which he haven't had much ease... but I'll chop off your balls today!

happy sweet 16 you still need your spleen, but let us grind that nasty cock into blood and bone for in our garden grows a nasty set of future tranny ho's...

I am tired now... be careful to sleep on the back, yeah black don't crack, but us white 'gals' need to watch our brow, yes tired now, and we moisturize, and theorize, and we drift off into our sleep, if I die before I wake, pray the lord my soul to take, I want a pink coffin now lord, and my finest frock, sew these eyes shut now, oh they've seen too much now... I want to wear my finest robe... my finest wears to adorn this body I've hacked to pieces lord, I know better than you God... I'm free to mod my bod God you stupid sod, I'm not Todd or Rod I'm Mary... and quite the contrary... instead of divine providence, I have a disease for which there is no evidence.

So help me lord, I've struck a chord, with a son who needed a Dad, I've struck the wrong chord and now I can't afford the therapy because he is so sad.

I like my new fake pussy, it goes underneath... pity I'm a thief of a little boy's father... a brittle toy now covered in lava.

I am the volcano, but I don't feel any shame-o... Oh no lord on the contrary because I did what was right and every night I derobe and admire my handiwork, you say I went beserk, but I know best, in the absence of a test.

And now it is we who will rest. You may never get your rag, but here's hoping you get a toe tag.

Battybattybats said...

Hmmm... maybe thats the best way to protect Transgneder people from all the violent physical and enotional and psychological attacks from the transphobic.

If the sufficiently repressed transgender = transphobia theory is correct as it appears to be often with homophobia (over 80% of homophobes are repressed bi/gay iirc) then the answer may be simple.

Just encourage more crossdressing and gender fluidity in fashion.

Goths and Emos might be paving the way for more people to accept who they are rather than repress it and become twisted, warped, hate-filled, spiteful, wounded, cowardice, violent, aggressive, irrational, nonsensical, raping, murderous, buffoons who if it weren't for the harm they cause would be the source of extreme pity.

And yet, if they'd just put on some pink panties and a bra, a skirt, blouse, lipstick and heels once a fortnight not only would the world not end but their life of internal agony would untangle, they'd slowly come to terms with it, become happy being different from what they spend their life forcing themselves to be and the world will be a happier and healthier and safer place for all people.

Or maybe it's an issue with attraction to rather than identification with?

In which case there's plenty of Transgender porn out there!

Battybattybats said...

Hmmm Zoe, do you think it's got to the point of threats of violence with those death-remarks?

That's a crime iirc.

Zoe, I'd suggest you have a moral duty, perhaps an ethical obligation too, to report this person so that Interpol or whatever appropriate authority track their IP address.

They could be a comitter of transphobic violence in the past and possibly in the future.

Lloyd Flack said...

Yosemite Sam,

Why do you use obscenities so frequently? Why are you now putting so much of your posts in capitals? You have been told that the obscenities just make you look ridiculous so why do you continue?

What was your reason for doing a dummy spit over at Dr. Wes's blog?

Have people who deal with you face to face advised you to seek psychiatric help or does this sort of behaviour of yours only happen online?

About a fifth of genetic males exposed to DES in early pregnancy became transsexual. Do you have an explanation of this other than the drug affecting their brain development in utero? To me this looks like proof that some cases at least of transsexuality are due to developmental accidents. That being so it seems reasonable to look for other things that can affect the development of the brain.

It is amusing to read your speculations about Zoe and her family. You get it all wrong. I've known then for a long time so I can say with complete certainty that your speculations bear no relationship to the truth. I was one of the first to be told about the change. It started well before she was taking any hormones. I know her too well..

If Zoe had not gone on hormone treatment once the change had started she would have probably died. I f she had not had her testes removed she would almost certainly have developed cancer. There were pre-cancers there already. What happened was real. That you want to believe it wasn't, well reality doesn't care about your wishes.

You are trying to hurt and you can't. People see you as a joke. Can you understand why?

So the fantasies you spin about Zoe just have me doubling up with laughter and speculating about just what is driving you. It is not your beliefs. Your beliefs seem to be means for you to indulge in anger. But why do you want to become angry? Do you get off on rage? Do you have a very fragile sense of your worth and sre trying to defend it?

Zoe Brain said...

Yosemite Sam - thanks for the data, though next time, please just give abstracts and the source URL - http://www.narth.com/docs/transexpl.html

Ye, it's from NARTH, the same people who advocate bullying as a desirable technique to maintain social norms.

NARTH Scientific Advisory Committee member Joseph Berger said on a blog in reaction to a San Francisco Chronicle article on gender identity issues, “I suggest, indeed, letting children who wish go to school in clothes of the opposite sex - but not counselling other children to not tease them or hurt their feelings.

“On the contrary, don’t interfere, and let the other children ridicule the child who has lost that clear boundary between play-acting at home and the reality needs of the outside world.

“Maybe, in this way, the child will re-establish that necessary boundary.”

This was before the murder of Larry King, of course, and NARTH has since disposed of the evidence. But the Wayback Machine is your friend.

Dr Breiner' contention that a desire for plastic surgery to improve appearance is a pychiatric illness may be true - but if so, a large fraction of the female population suffer it. Including me. I doubt I'll ever have any though, I'm in a profession where my mediocre appearance does not affect my ability to gain employment.

Some more of Dr Sander Breiner's more interesting ideas, from http://www.narth.com/docs/curricula.html

According to Breiner, this isn't simply a social or psychological threat to children but is a neurological problem as well. Actual brain changes take place. He notes that there is a strong connection between hormonal development and neurotransmitters that send messages for hormonal development. "If the wrong message gets sent, as is likely to occur when external messages are coming from teachers, then the child may experience a delay in proper sexual development."

Dr. Breiner observes that neuroscience studies are clear on this subject yet nothing has appeared yet in the psychiatric or psychological literature to deal with the connection between external gay-affirming messages and brain development.
...
In discussing the development of homosexuality in general, Dr. Breiner observed: "Human homosexuality is a symptom of some unresolved conflicts in a child's development psychologically. It is determined before the age of five, and usually between 1 1/2 to 3 years of age. If the individual has a neurosis, it was organized between ages 3 to 6. If they are of a borderline psychological organization, it was between ages 2 to 3. If they are psychotic, the psychological organization is under 2."


It's certainly novel to diagnose 2 year olds as psychotic. It's positively original to confidently state that non-homophobic school curriculum materials actually cause brain-damage, without a single shred of evidence. But I mustn't overstate the case, nor exaggerate.

The brain that is developing (pre-puberty to adulthood), particularly in the area that deals with emotional and sexual development, is affected organically by social and physical stress. Homosexual indoctrination (direct or subtle), coercive or seductive can organically affect brain and sexual physiologic development to a modest or minimal degree. It cannot permanently produce homosexuality.
...
Therefore, any attitude by society and particularly educators that homosexuality is a reasonable or alternative lifestyle can significantly contribute to psychopathology in this vulnerable age.


Hmmm. And his evidence for this is?

Zero.

On the other hand, if you look at his powerpoint presentation on adolescent neural development, and the effect of decreasing pubertal age,it's not just good but leads to a coherent picture.

He's merely rabidly homophobic, and so sees things in that light. A rabid atheist would no doubt see Christian educational materials as being equally brain damaging, or perhaps even more so. Both would have a point. Many Gays really do lead a self-destructive lifestyle, just as many religious people become closed-minded narcissists who take a perverse pleasure in inflicting pain. No need to mention the various preachers who have raped or branded their children with a hot steam-iron. Both positions have much to commend them, but pending any data on the subject, are merely interesting conjectures.

There's a good critique of the article in question over at Cracked Crystal Ball II.

May I suggest that you also read the McHugh article he alludes to. It's in a religious/political journal,not a medical one, because that's where it rightly belongs. Also the critique by Jennifer Usher in the same journal.

Zoe Brain said...

Yosemite Sam -
But if you want to lift the lid, on your own transsex kid... I'd be happy to help

My son isn't TS (Thank You God). He is, however, Intersexed, and had genital reconstruction surgery before his peculiar father had hers.

Given your offer of "help", I'm glad I live on a different continent.

Anonymous said...

Brattybattybats you fucking confused faggot malingerer fuck off. CFS is the biggest bullshit disease. You're probably LOADED with antidepressants knowing your types... you probably are just fucking experiencing some kind of polypharmacy side effects you useless unemployed fool. Get a job and a useful social identity instead of a complaining useless sod.

And Uncle Alan you stupid fucking degenerate chimera fuck head... when I said German the language was that of a third rate fucking power, it would still hold true you ridiculous cunt, regardless of whatever piece of shit surrounding state this mental patient bad hair days comes from. And I love it how you can only attack something from two days ago rather than acknowledge the clear harm you've done to your son. Pathetic fucking ass queen.

And I have a cross dresser here throwing around the self hating homo theory as an epithet now... wow. All you people need to be sent to an island.

To think, you are a convinct ancestor country in Australia, and the society banished people for such high crimes as petty theft to the other side of the globe! now you get to fuck kids up with a free painted nail hand.

A piece of shit obscure low readership lame blog that one would never come to for the posts on the main page is going to be archived? What do I fucking care? nobody is going to care? most of confused faggots are too busy slicing your urethras in two to even breed so you'll be selected out, you fucking sad clown.

I don't give a fuck what some future mentally ill faggot home wrecker criminal thinks of me. Google keeps every fucking everyone in the fucking world has done online so why the fuck is this 'candid camera' all of a sudden you piece of shit.

You clearly are unable and unstable. You're the knock off gucci handbag version of a woman and you always will be.

You harm children and you lie out your ass daily to the world and yourself. Your entire reason to live is to conceal and deceive.

You won't live very long with the all out hormonal assault that you've begun inflicting on your body, your bones, your eyes, your heart, your brain, you'll be sitting in a sauna at a gay bathhouse and you'll suck up the steam just as a DVT travels to your lungs Alan.

You're clearly a man who has flushed his body and life down the toilet.

Someone with such disregard for his own body and life, cannot possibly be trusted with his son.

You're a seriously toxic individual at this stage Alan, a seriously toxic man. A ticking time bomb. I think you're probably sick enough to get off on having breat cancer, you could wear a ribbon and 'bond' with the real women in the hospital perhaps.


You're crazy and a liar. Your psychosis is clear to billions. No specific objective individualized science related to your body / test has ever proven you are intersex or a woman. You are mentally unstable and in need of immediate reform and correction. I pity your son, as do billions.

Alan, you name, whatever it is this decade, is spoken of in hush tones behind your back believe me. You're a laughing stock.

If anything is going to be here for perpetuity it is your self inflicted humiliation and needless warrentless nonorganic struggle in this world Alan.

Oh to go back and watch film of your childhood alan, what we would see. You sick, dirty, filthy little man you.

The very fact that grasping for straws idiot clown sad clowns like you exist makes me want to remove myself from the organ donor list lest I end up inadvertently giving an organ to a malignant cocksucker who has no respect for his body and pumps every organ he has full of foreign amounts of synthetic drugs... you need to wake up Alan, Uncle Al, Uncle faggy fag hag Al yeah he's messed up I hate looking at him... shudder the spine.

You look like a ghoul. I magnet for drugs and suspicious cops on a street corner.

Phobic? only of what you do to kids and the sanctity of your own perfectly healthy bodies and phobic also of needing a hospital bed some ass clown is in there getting castrated to treat a mental illness.

You're in the way of decency, in the way of a son who needs a father, in the way of everybody. Get out of the way.

Zoe Brain said...

BBB - no, nothing Yosemite Sam has done rises to the level required for prosecution. Not even close.

His problem is that he wants to hurt me, but I refuse to grant him permission to.

Now if he finds an area where I deserve being hurt, I'll have to overcome what is now a pretty close to complete automatic dismissal of anything he says, allow the criticism and do something about it to ameliorate the situation.

I don't think that's likely at this stage, he's blown his credibility completely, but you never know.

And he has raised some good issues, if you look hard enough. For example, the bit about single parents. That allowed another commenter to mention the evidence that gender of the parental pair doesn't matter.

That's not quite true, I'll have to look up the URL of the Canadian study that showed the children of lesbian couples were slightly better adjusted than the norm. But it was only 1.5%, just above the threshold of statistical significance, so it shouldn't be given too much weight.

Carmel and I aren't lesbian anyway. Just a same-sex all-female couple.

Bad hair days said...

>... when I said German the language was that of a third rate fucking power, it would still hold true you ridiculous cunt, regardless of whatever piece of shit surrounding state this mental patient bad hair days comes from.

Hug you too :-)

Really. You am the most creativst troll and the one troll that puts the most reasearch in his postings. May I point you out for "Janice Raymond" and "Baily" for a bit more sources of hate?

You may even quote m Andrea -> but I think that would be a bit far streched accepting a feminists view.

After all you think man and woman are like man and cat.

Battybattybats said...

Oh of course, the several genetic changes found in the white blood cells of CFS sufferers relating to exactly the main areas of symptoms, immunological systems and mitochondrial energy production, are all just figments of my imagination or the results of antidepressants that I'm not on.

'knowing your types' huh. Shows what you know then. Because not only is generalisation the sloppiest of thinking it's also solidly incorrect as the studies into Goths shows.

Another myth that you believe then. We should expect nothing less I suppose. Go and read some of the studies on the mental health of Goths, your in for a rude shock as they are the opposite of your expectations. Maybe its time you look at reality rather than popular mythology.

As for the repression theory of homophobia, I'm referring to the study where they showed homophobes gay porn and they got arroused. Rather than just running scared from the notion by blanketly pretending it's rubbish try actually finding a flaw in their methodology. Find one and you show your right, just say it's bullshit and everyone knows your posturing like in the schoolyard.

Cause your coming across as nothing more than an inflated blowhard, full of nothing but hot air. Try finding something substantial.

In the philosophical fields of moral and ethical reasoning, sociology, psychology or any other field.

Oh and as for ancestry, Nope, no convict in me though I wouldn't have an issue with that as the idea of ancestry determining morality is a little bit alongside lamark and phrenology isn't it.

I did have one of the officers in the fleet that transported the convicts in my ancestry though, the infamous short-haired pants-wearing pirate-queen of Ireland Grace O'Malley is an ancestor. There were those Carpathian Gypsies, Indeed some Germans including a fencing master of great repute, a famous mountaineer, a 20th C British PM was a cousin, as was a 20th C US President and one of the big newspaper magnates of the 20th century.

But nope, no convicts in my bloodline, harbourers of bushrangers with republican sentiments though, had a few of those but they didn't get caught.

So your guesses are off a wee bit. Like your logic and your conclusions. You have my profound sympathies on your embarrassment!

It really is like something I'd expect from a teenager, though admittedly one with underdeveloped emotional and communication skills.

And again let me point out that Zoe's actions are ethical, while yours Sammy are not. So it is you and not her that is in the way of decency. It is you if you got your way that would cause real harm to her child and not her.

Sammy, try to realise you're projecting, your demons are on the inside. Go to a decent psychologist. I advise you to bring a print-out of this comments thread with you, it will help. Take the path of healling.

The world is far to vast to fit into the tiny fragile model your trying to jam it into. You need to reevaluate your basic precepts.

Don't damn the data cause it doesn't fit your model, go back to the chalkboard and work out where you went wrong. Your working from presumptions.

The phenomenon now called transgender has existed for thousands of years. It causes others no harm as being different is not intrinsically harmful, even on one's children and as such is absolutely ethical. While trying to restrict the diversity of others and the rights of others does do measurable harm to them and to the community.

Making you Sam and not Zoe quite unethical.

Battybattybats said...

Actually...
Is anyone else getting as creeped out about the degree of Sams obsessive remarks about Zoe's kid?

I missed that 'offer of help' post at first but after that and all that 'get out of the way' 'your in the way' stuff...

Zoe, the comments might not have reached the point of successful prosecution yet, but have they reached the point of getting police investigation?

Anonymous said...

Tell me exactly what you claim your son was born with in terms of your claim that he was born intersex. Tell me exactly because I find this hard to believe like all your other fucking lies.

Absolutely hard to believe. Knowing you, you look for the slightest millimeter of measurement to take and hacked up your child with knives immediately you rabid dog.

What the fuck's wrong with constructive social stigma? It's human nature to egg our fellow humans on to get the fuck in line. We shun the criminals. We shun the selfish. We shun the gluttonous fat people. We shame the people who abandon children. We shame the people who earn money from very little real deserved source such as a subprime CEO, it's constructive fucking stimga Alan... if some fucking kid who lacks good parents gets beaten back into shape at school that's a good thing right (beaten by words) what the fuck do you think school is Alan? it's an exercise in social engineering Alan!

That's all it fuckin is. Society wants engineered men and woman to go out and be drones and create families of more drones. How the fuck can they do that if they are aberrant faggot hedonists and selfish deluded girlie men?? they can't!

How the fuck can people be healthy in mind and spirit and active and productive when they are a fat fuck stuffing their face? hence stigma.

There is collateral damage in all kinds of social engineering. Innocent men on death row. Sensitive kid at school getting bullied and survival of the fittest means he offs himself that's the way it fucking has always been Alan.

And who the fuck are you or any faggot to judge and label any society that fears and punishes attempts to break down the order of the family that has built that society from the ground up? Don't you think that would be a natural fucking human response to these threats? these people who want to put gender in the shredder for their own ends? We are the ones who have thousands of years of runs on the board, you've got a few fucking biased studies from lesbian sociologists that can easily be countered by massive mountains of public opinion and when the issue is not just a fucking specialist area, it's the area of being a parent, and a family, which BILLIONS can profess just as much expertise at if not more than some fucking ivory tower fucking academic cunt, we can see the threat to the family is real, and untried fucking social human experiments are being made with innocent kids... and for not liking the people that take it upon themselves to do this, we get called names? well fuck you... you're the threat. The status fuckin quo is the only fucking thing that works. Biology drives its building blocks, a man and a woman create a baby, a man and a woman are its parents, it is a family, no escaping this.

The subjective 'happiness' of a confused homo couple is not more important than a kid having a mother and father growing up.

There's nothing at all wrong with shaming those whose life choices tear apart the family and tear apart the fabric of society the corner stone of society. Nothing wrong with it at all. Nobody is more abhorrent than those that experiment on children.

Claiming normal couples sometimes harm and divorce and have less than ideal families does not in any way negate the overwhelming consensus in every community across the globe and in every academic community apart from the fag lobby that the family, as defined by history, is the ideal environment to raise a child.

Redesigning this fertile ground into some barren by choice chimera of shitty experimentation and finger crossing, fucks kids from the jump street and anybody who dares dabble in this evil needs to be standing condemned in the eyes of the others and hence the shame.

Shame the fucking kid who sucks down 9 cokes a day and grips dozens of snack foods a day. Shame that motherfucker because he ain't growin up to be no productive healthy part of the human family, he ain't gonna breed healty kids... he's a threat to the future, and deep down the group knows it, deep down he feels it himself... he needs to modify his behavior.

You needed to modify your behavior but you've failed to sadly. You've wrapped yourself in a pathetic flag of pseudoscience to keep your inner fears at your mistakes at bay... but it will unfurl in time.

Shaming me because you think my swearing is a threat to you, or labeling me a narcissist because you've got your own norms on how you think people should approach you, you're just as apt to discriminate on the basis of markers you have attached... yet none of them stretch beyond me to demonstrable harm I've done and am doing to a child as you are.

If you want, to throw away your lives and ruin thousands of generations of successful breeding and families and not breed and just be a hedonist sex addict faggot go ahead.

But if you do have a kid, you might want to take note of how that kid is made, it's made with a man and a woman. And it sure as fuck better come home from school and see a man and a woman at the dinner table if you don't want to take your chances in fucking that kid up. Everybody knows it.

I don't care, you're an irresponsible git for sticking your unstable mind owned fucking cock in a woman a mere seven years ago Uncle Al.

You are. I have seen plenty of kids fucked up by even just divorce, even just Daddy having another kid to another woman, even finding out they are adopted, parents dying, sibling dying, just mere bullying, just mere buck teeth for fuck's sake. And you've got a kid, who you make watch his father turn into a fake woman. My God man, you're playing with fire.

You've got all your support here online from your fellow mentally ill trannies, who blindly cry human rights for themselves without thinking of a child's rights... so you're fine, you're comfortable here online where nobody will criticize you.

I guarantee you Uncle Al, you're taking that kid's life into your own hands... and it isn't right.

By design, you are designing an untried family pal. You cannot deny that. And don't you DARE hit me with some pathetic small unreplicated study pal I'm talking about the fucking family here, something replicated BILLIONS of times in every epoch.

I'm not talking about some fag courtesan prostitute who doesn't breed and the society just leaves them be to be a crazy.

I'm talking about the father, from the family, being a risk taking asshole and by design taking things away from kids that kids are proven to need. The more you do these things, the more it makes you look like you didn't have these things in your own childhood.

These things being many. Maybe you don't understand.


There will come a day. Thank god you will only have one son spinning on this roulette wheel.

You're a seriously criminal man Alan Brain. A very seriously messed up man... who is now a fake woman. You're a cheap handbag. Not even a burnt CD... not even that. You're not even second hand smoke, you're a minstrel act... smeared with the consumer items of a sex you'll never know what it's like to be. Your eyes deceive you.

You'll never know how women feel and what women are and how they think and feel. Never.

You're just a man, who has stabbed himself a few times and butchered himself with a shit load of synthetic hormones.

You're not what you claim to be. And it's not a case of live and let live, because you brought the family into it. And when you do that, you lose all face.

Nothing like you Alan, no half disassembled middle aged man, can justify the robbing of a father from a child.

With actions that could have been vetoed by the will of a father's love.

Partially disassembled, partially dismembered, partially marinated in knock off estrogen male seeks quiet fling no strings attached.

Alan you're a male. Society shouldn't have enabled your psychosis. You're a male. Alan Brain is a male, will be a male for years yet until his body gives in, caves in and dies completely from dirty DVTs traveling to his lung.

Alan you are completely and utterly a fanatic true believer in your cause. You're a disgusting example of what civilization can do to a man Alan. A serious argument for civilization collapse being imminent.

You. You. Weak and dependent you. Are head of a family. Are you fucking kidding me?

Bad hair days said...

I really who think society has go back to the old ways - like in ape culture - like the green ape thing.

The quality of a society is measured by the way it treats its minorites.

Nica said...

Thank you, Sam.

You read a lot better without all of the expletives.

Please consider donating a a hefty amount in support of Zoe's poor son, then. Let's see you put your money where your mouth is.

I'll be waiting to hear how much you have donated.

Anonymous said...

Wrong. The quality of a society is measured by the kinds of minorities it manufactures out of thin air that cannot be said to be defined by an organic immutable trait. Nature gave us races. Nature gave us 1 in 5000 real genital deformity people. Society gave us the explosion in confused self identifiers in various self generated minorities springing up everywhere.

The health of the society is in the minds of the youth... and it ain't pretty.

The interesting thing about THESE LIES

"
That's not quite true, I'll have to look up the URL of the Canadian study that showed the children of lesbian couples were slightly better adjusted than the norm. But it was only 1.5%, just above the threshold of statistical significance, so it shouldn't be given too much weight.

Carmel and I aren't lesbian anyway. Just a same-sex all-female couple."

OK, DID YOU SEE THAT 'STUDY' THAT BIG GIANT METASTUDY, ACTUALLY I THINK IT WAS THE BIGGEST EVER, IT TOOK THOUSANDS OF YEARS, THOUSANDS OF GENERATIONS, AND IT SHOWED ITSELF TO BE THE ONLY VIABLE CORNERSTONE OF A CIVILIZATION, IT WAS CALLED THE FAMILY YOU CHERRY PICKING CUNT ALAN.

"Carmel and I aren't lesbian anyway. Just a same-sex all-female couple"

WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT MEAN YOU ASSHOLE? WHAT IS A LESBIAN COUPLE IT ISN'T TWO WOMEN? JESUS CHRIST? AND YOU'RE NOT A WOMAN ANYWAY.

YOU'RE A WOMAN AND WEIRD FAKE PLASTIC BAG COUPLE.

YOU'RE PATHETIC.

YOU DISGUSTING CRIMINAL YOU. IT'S A SHAME MENTAL ILLNESS HAD TO CLAIM YOUR CHILD'S FATHER.

GO HAVE A SHAVE ALAN. IT'S TIME TO COVER UP REALITY AGAIN FOR ANOTHER DAY PAL.

YOU'RE VERY VERY PSYCHOLOGICALLY DISTURBED UNCLE ALAN.

I CERTAINLY HOPE YOU USE THE DISABLED TOILET AT WORK. NOBODY DESERVES TO HAVE TO SHARE A TOILET WITH CRIMINALS LIKE YOU.

YOU FRANKENSTEIN PARAHUMAN FUCK. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO YOURSELF UNCLE ALAN?

YOU'RE SOMEBODY'S SON ALAN. SOMEBODY'S SON!

DID THEY SEND YOU AWAY TO BOARDING SCHOOL WHEN YOU NEEDED TO BE WITH YOUR MOTHER? WHAT HAPPENED DARLING?

RAPED?

HOW OLD WERE YOU WHEN YOU STARTED GETTING FUCKED?

YOU'RE AN OBSCENITY. I'VE SHOWN YOUR BLOG TO SOME PEOPLE TONIGHT... THEY ARE APPALLED BY YOUR EXISTENCE AND BRAZEN PUBLIC ADVOCACY FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF CHILDREN AND THE FAMILY.

WE ARE COLLECTIVELY HORRIFIED AT THE ODDITY AND THREAT THAT YOU REPRESENT TO CIVILIZATION.

YOU HAVE NOW SELECTED YOURSELF OUT OF THE POOL. AND YOUR HAMMERING OF YOUR CHILD'S MENTAL HEALTH PLACES HIM AT GREAT RISK OF NEVER BREEDING SO WE CAN HAVE SOME CONFIDENCE THAT YOUR PSYCHOLOGICAL PROBLEMS, AND YOUR ABUSE OF POWER IN INDOCTRINATING YOUR CHILDREN WILL LAST ONLY ONE GENERATION NOW.

WE ARE CONFIDENT. THAT WE CAN FORGET THE NIGHTMARES YOU HAVE GIVEN US BY US IMAGINING HOW TERRIBLE IT MUST BE FOR YOUR INNOCENT CHILD TO SEE SUCH ABUSE OF HUMAN LIFE AS YOU HAVE DONE TO YOUR OWN LIFE AND BODY UNCLE ALAN.



UNCLE ALAN... YOU'VE BEEN A VERY SILLY MAN. A VERY SILLY MAN. YOU'RE CONVINCED YOU'RE A 'WOMAN' ALTHOUGH THE FACT THAT YOU CAN'T BREED AND DON'T HAVE A VAGINA OR REAL BREASTS OR A REAL FEMALE BRAIN, OR A REAL FEMALE HEART AND LUNGS (WATCH THE DVT UNCLE AL!) AND YOU HAVE BIG FEET UNCLE AL?

UNCLE ALAN WE LOVED YOU. BUT THEN YOU WENT AND HURT YOUR CHILD. WHY DID YOU HURT YOUR CHILD UNCLE ALAN? WOULD YOU HURT US TOO? US?

UNCLE ALAN I AM DISOWNING YOU. NOTHING CAN SAVE YOUR BODY OF LIES IN THE LONG RUN. THE ODDS ARE AGAINST THE ODD MAN.

THE ODDSMAKER HAS SPOKEN, THE ODDS OF THE ODDITY PERISHING BY HIS OWN HAND WITHIN YEARS ARE 1.0

I HAVE SAID TO YOU ON A NUMBER OF OCCASIONS, YOU'RE TRULY A HORRIFIC GRUESOME CLOWN... I CANNOT IMAGINE ANYTHING GOOD FOR YOUR CHILD COMING FROM YOUR ABHORRENT DISRESPECT FOR EVIDENCE, NATURE, AND HIS FUTURE.

YOU ARE NOT AS 'BRAINY' AS YOUR NAME BETRAYS. NOR AS YOUR ARROGANT CRIES OF 'ROCKET SCIENTIST' WHICH TAKE IT FROM ME, FORCED A RECOILING DOUBLE TAKE THE FIRST SECOND I CAME TO THIS BLOG BEFORE EVEN KNOWING YOU WERE AN IMITATION FEMALE AND ALL ROUND WHACKO.

UNCLE ALAN HAS BEEN THREE YEARS A FEMALE IMPERSONATOR. AND HE IS TALKED ABOUT IN HUSHED TONES. WHY IS THAT? BIGOTRY? NO. IGNORANCE? NO. THREAT TO CIVILIZATION? YEP.

AMUSINGLY GRUESOME TO THE EYE? OF COURSE.

HOPE YOU ARE USING? THE DISABLED TOILET.

MEN LIKE YOU SHOULD HAVE THEIR CHILDREN SENT TO LOVING FOSTER PARENTS. NOT PARENT AND PSEUDOPARENT PLASTIC NOVELTY COUNTERFEIT FEMALE.

UNCLE ALAN, YOU NEED TO RESPECT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY LAW AND STOP INTERNET PIRACY. YOU EMBODY INTERNET PIRACY, GIVEN THAT YOU ARE A PIRATE COPY OF A FEMALE.

YOU'RE A TERRIBLY POOR IMITATION HANDBAG. A DRIED UP LEATHER CLOWN. THE ONLY THING HEALTHY THAT HAS EVER BEEN IN YOUR ENVIRONMENT IS A SALAD SANDWICH.

IF YOU WERE DEAF AND BLIND, YOU WOULD NOT BE A CASTRATO RIGHT NOW.

IF YOU MOVED TO MY STREET I WOULD MOVE AWAY.

I SIMPLY COULDN'T STAND BEING NEAR A CHILD SUCH AS YOURS WHO IS BEING SYSTEMATICALLY DENIED A FAMILY.

sumptos devil s advocate said...

Anonymous,

Thank you.

RadarGrrl said...

I still don't understand why you're giving the Amonymous Coward the time of day. He keeps spewing the same violent shit over and over again, and you're clearly not ever going to be able to change the way his fucked up, oh-so-fragile male ego causes him to think, lest he catch this highly contagious disease known as trans and have to become 'one of us', which is what he obviously seems to fear the most.

Nica said...

So, umm, does that mean you're not going to donate anything then, Sam?

What a pity, and I really thought that you actually meant what you were saying.

I have to admit I have never seen such an outpouring in real life or on the internet like this today.

Please keep on going. I would like to learn more about you.

Bad hair days said...

We dont lear'n a lot of him, but because of him.

I wan't to keep him and the invitation to my blog stays.

sumptos devil s advocate said...

I think people keep getting him wrong, or don't care to further investigate. He uses all caps, as should be clear, to distinguish his text from that of the person he is quoting.

He is clearly not violent and I think there is substance to what he says. A lot of statistics bandied about by Zoe Brain are apparently wrong, including the one regarding the intersex. I think Zoe Brain is going to have to be completely assiduous in any assertions made.

It is entirely possible that the phenomenon of transsexuality arises from personal repetition and reinforcement of cross-gender fantasies as a result of some experiences, which due to the plasticity of the brain may cause the brain to develop structures resembling some parts of the female brain. (This is in response to your studies that, pre-HRT, the brains of transsexuals match their target sex.) I'm not sure if Sam would acknowledge that though; it is still possible to argue that that is damage resulting from years of self-inflicted psychological torment.

Also, Sam fails to recognize that in science nothing is ever proven; in science, everything is either NOT YET UNPROVEN BUT FALSIFIABLE or UNPROVEN. (Statements not yet unproven but not falsifiable fall outside the realm of science.) Though studies are somewhat sloppy compared to other scientific tests, I think the trans-theories arising therefrom are still falsifiable as a reproduction of the studies may produce contradicting results.

But still, something about Sam's posting ties you down to reality; civilization has been in decline for quite a while.

justme said...

sumptos devil s advocate, your speculations on the origin of transsexualism are just that, speculations. I've never yet seen a shred of credible evidence to support any psychological theory of its origins. On the other hand, in order for your speculations to be "entirely possible" and "still possible to argue," you have to ignore or dismiss some fairly strong evidence otherwise.

And I don't see any tie to reality from Sam's posts, other than the cold reality of a visceral hatred supported by impressively elaborate post-rationalization. Your flip statement that "civilization has been in decline for quite a while" is so vague as to be practically semantically null; I doubt any two people in this conversation share in any detail the same conceptions of "civilization" and "decline" as each other, even you and Sam. And I suspect a number of us would differ dramatically from both of you. So even those of us who happened to agree with the statement based on our own understandings, probably wouldn't agree with each other on what the decline entailed, or even on what it was that was declining, so the actual information communicated approaches zero.

Sam, you express your anger very clearly, if not eloquently. The root of anger is pain or fear. Maybe if you explained to us the source of your pain, or what exactly it is you're afraid of, we could have a productive conversation, of mutual benefit.

sumptos devil s advocate said...

Well, I don't know nothing then. Either a transsexual is a confused, psychotic freak who thinks he's the opposite sex when he isn't, and whose mere presence and mention around children corrupts them, or a transsexual is inevitable, because the condition originates in the brain, and no mention of the condition around children will corrupt them. Basically, one side is pure evil and the other side is pure goodness. Which is it.

I am reminded of something I read on the narcissists-suck blog:

[[[There are many who claim there is no universal truth and therefore would find my paragraph immediately above to be laughable. Obviously, I don't subscribe to post-modernist views of truth being whatever you make it to be. My near to half a century of life has given me much time for observation. The verdict is in: the less a person believes in an objective moral structure the more unbalanced their minds are. Yeah, I said it. The more unhinged they are from reality and the more likely they are to veer off into some really scary places.

Remember, reality is synonymous with truth. I make no apology for believing in objective truth because, in the end, truth (reality) always wins.]]]

(emphasis added)
http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.com/2008/10/how-how-to-relate-to-badly-behaving-and.html

Of course, how do you know what you think to be the truth is the truth? I believe there is a universal truth, but that I have no way of connecting to it in my mind. At the end, however, the author provides an opening, which I think can extend to the statement: You shall know them by their fruits.

Nica said...

Don't be a hater, Sam. We are really not as bad as you think. Why shouldn't we be given a chance to live our lives in the way which makes us the healthiest, happiest, and most well-adjusted we can be? How does that hurt you or anybody else for that matter? Older MTF transsexuals with children are generally very, very devoted to their families. Most of the people I know who fall into that category only transitioned later in life after marriage, children, career, etc. because they faced literally one of two choices, transition or death. There is no other option for people once they have reached this point. Please don't be a hater. And please feel free to donate something to show your support for Zoe's child, who I agree is going to need help throughout his life, just as we all do. Won't you be the first to step up and help?

Anonymous said...

"I still don't understand why you're giving the Amonymous Coward the time of day."

Censorship never solved any issues. You both have a lot in common.

Lloyd Flack said...

What I find interesting is that Sam has ignored my comments. I'm the witness who gives the lie to all that he says. Looks like he has to ignore me to continue with his fantasies.

Oh, and Sam you haven't answered my questions.

Bad hair days said...

>> "I still don't understand why you're giving the Amonymous Coward the time of day."

> Censorship never solved any issues. You both have a lot in common.

Yosemite braught out some very valuable responses. Its not always bad to have a troll.

I think "he" knows that and why I would actually love him arround my blog. But he seen he can't challenge me (without loosing the ridiculing thing) so he avoided my place :-(

Sarah

Boo said...

To get back to the original point of the post, overall it was a good article, but there were still some problems. The stereotyping, for one thing:

In breakout sessions at the conference, transgender men and women in their 50s and 60s described lives of heartache and rejection: years of hiding makeup under the mattress, estranged parents, suicide attempts. Those in their 20s and 30s conveyed a dedicated militancy: they wore nose rings and Mohawks, ate strictly vegan, and conducted heated debates about the definitions of queer and he-she and drag queen.

A recent medical innovation holds out the promise that this might be the first generation of transsexuals who can live inconspicuously.

There are a whole lot of transsexuals who can and do live inconspicuously, including almost all of us who started hormones young enough. We're the ones who aren't hanging around gender conferences in our militant vegan mohawks.

And this quote is just ridiculous:

For the minority who are truly transgender, “the sooner they get into the right clothes, the less they’re going to suffer. But for the rest? I’m not sure if we’re helping or hurting them by pushing them in this direction.

Um, yeah. Because it's definitely the parents who are pushing the kids here. Not the kids chomping at the bit trying to pull their parents in this direction. Not a bitty bit.

In his case studies and descriptions of patients, Zucker usually explains gender dysphoria in terms of what he calls “family noise”: neglectful parents who caused a boy to over­identify with his domineering older sisters; a mother who expected a daughter and delayed naming her newborn son for eight weeks.

Zucker believed John’s behavior resulted from early-childhood medical trauma—he was born with tumors on his kidneys and had had invasive treatments every three months—and from his dependence during that time on his mother, who has a dominant personality.

After that, her parents took her to see Zucker. He connected Chris’s behavior to the early years of her parents’ marriage; her mother had gotten pregnant and Mike had been resentful of having to marry her, and verbally abusive. Chris, Zucker told them, saw her mother as weak and couldn’t identify with her.

So basically, Zucker just hunts through your childhood trying to find anything he can tenuously connect to being trans. Exactly like Nicolosi and the ex-gay quacks do with their clients. Of course, my best friend who happens to be trans also happens to have the most awesome parents and close knit family in the universe, but she did stub her toe once when she was three, so maybe that's what caused her to go girly.

We were shocked,” Chris’s father said. “They gave up on their kid too early. Regardless of our beliefs and our values, you look at Chris, and you look at these kids, and they have to go through a sex-change operation and they’ll never look right and they’ll never have a normal life. Look at Chris’s chance for a happy, decent life, and look at theirs. Seeing those kids, it just broke our hearts.

Of course, objective evidence tells us that with early intervention, we turn out looking perfectly "right" and have normal lives, but whatever.

And yes, I know those aren't the author's sentiments, but when she just tosses these factually incorrect quotes out there unrebutted, a reader who doesn't already know better is going to come away with incorrect information which will make them more likely to form anti-trans opinions.

sumptos devil s advocate said...

I'll have to have this repeated:

[[[Sam believes that transsexualism is a non-psychological problem which can be caused by toxins in the environment (think DiEthylStilbestrol).

Endocrine disruptors are well known to be wreaking havoc on our biosphere. Just look that pthalate BPA plastic problem. Just look at any number of potential environmental endocrine disruptions.
Yep, it happens in frogs, fish, barnacles, mice and humans as well.

Your organic contention stands and falls on your NO EVIDENCE of organic gender bending ok fuck head?
You contradict your previous sentence where you were stating there *was* an organic cause of 'gender bending'.

-Kim]]]

Legal Eagle said...

Saw an interesting show on this subject on ABC2 last night. Certainly a very difficult topic - should one intervene or not? And if so, how? The stories of the kids featured in the doco were tragic.

Anonymous said...

I'm not giving any money to this filthy mentally ill imitation female and his child.

Since when is panhandling the honorable thing to do? Why the fuck should I support his trans hobby? He works.. let him work!

And to that fuck head who says I should respond to his false claim that 20% of sons exposed to that shit ended up confused psychoss.... link the study you piece of shit. Don't just fucking spout it... it's bullshit anyway.

Don't you fucking clowns understand that the ivory towers are stacked with your ideological allies who want to break down the family.

Your task is to prove you're not psychotic.

You're a bunch of imitation females, cheap nasty pathetic ruined men.

I've nothing else for you.

Apart from to say I am responsible for a ten fold jump in traffic and comments to this blog... which is saying something.

Battybattybats said...

Sumptuous devils advocate,
You mention the idea of objective moral truth. How do you manage to square that against the changing definitions of good and evil accross every major civilisation? Across cultures? Could it be an evolution of moral understanding? Or the result of an eternal conflict of the competing ways of viewing and interacting with the world based on nurological variations as some have suggested?

Please, please, please read philosophy! The field of moral reasoning is squarely within philosophy. You clealry find the subject important and interesting and it will be well worth your looking into the many different ways people have tried to explore what makes good good and evil evil.

Concentrate perhaps on the Enlightenment, a period I suspect that Sam must consider the end of the world, just very slowly, seeing as Sam apparently rejects every primary tenant of the notions of human rights.

"But still, something about Sam's posting ties you down to reality; civilization has been in decline for quite a while."

Based on what? Infant mortality rates? Murder rates? Wars? Literacy? In what way has civilisation declined and not actally improved? How do you measure civilisation?

"OK, DID YOU SEE THAT 'STUDY' THAT BIG GIANT METASTUDY, ACTUALLY I THINK IT WAS THE BIGGEST EVER, IT TOOK THOUSANDS OF YEARS, THOUSANDS OF GENERATIONS, AND IT SHOWED ITSELF TO BE THE ONLY VIABLE CORNERSTONE OF A CIVILIZATION, IT WAS CALLED THE FAMILY YOU CHERRY PICKING CUNT ALAN."

Sam, read up some Anthropology and some history. Cause the heteronormative, patriarchal, nuclear family model is a recent development from just one small area which owes it's dominance not to the success of it as a family system but to it's aggressive conversions by hook or by crook and by enmeshing it as much as possible into politics and power. The thousands of generations you mention have included accross the variety of human social structures large extended families, third and more sex catagories, acceptance of same-sex relationships and much much more.

The system you argue for is the interloper that according to you relies not on it's own merits but only by crushing the superior alternative. Let me point this out to you using your own words.

"That's all it fuckin is. Society wants engineered men and woman to go out and be drones and create families of more drones. How the fuck can they do that if they are aberrant faggot hedonists and selfish deluded girlie men?? they can't!"

So then us 'girlie men' and 'faggot hedonists' are so powerful that by our very presence we destroy the weak and thusly inferior society of drones? WOW! So the society you want to protect cannot possibly stand on it's own merits and compete against our diversity?

You mean that our existence makes it impossible for those unlike us to just go about their own business? That somehow their way of life is so fragile that our mere existence causes it to sunder? Even though there have been people just like us in every society with a decent record? That the only way drone society ca continue is to opress us?

Wow, I had no idea i had that kind of power! Just by being a 'girlie man' I'm some sort of supervillain? That is seriously cool! That's just an encouragement!

Especially if the drone society is so weak that it cannot survive even the presence of aternative! Such a weak system deserves to collapse surely and be replaced by one more robust which can survive and compete on it's own merits rather than only in the absence of competition.

Cause if drone society had any intrinsic value it could outcompete us on its own merits without needing any recourse to oppression.

I also find your choice of name hillarious Yosemite Sam, considering the hero was Bugs Bunny, you know Bugs, the transvestite http://www.alexross.com/drag.jpg

Sam always lost against Bugs, Sam even lost at times to Daffy Duck who was also known to crossdress. I'm sure that Marvin the Martian in his skirt would also defeat Yosemite Sam.

Am I too used to dealling with high-IQ folk? Am I overestimating you to suspect that your name could be a humurous code for you being some sock-puppet deliberatly constructed to make anti-trans folk look bad? Or maybe the parody of aggressive manliness appealed to you with his big bushy manly moustache and phallic-symbol firearms?

Sorry Sam but if the society you advocate for collapses because of the difference of a few individuals then it's pathetically weak and needs to collapse and be replaced by a stronger more flexible one that can handle change and diversity.

On the other hand I know personally plenty of people who can manage to have heterosexual families and raise heterosexual healthy kids without any trouble caused by having 'girlie men' friends and family members.

So maybe society is more able to cope than you give it credit for! Maybe your worried about nothing! Maybe transgender won't destroy the world and it will get along fine with us in it as equals.

There is plenty of evidence to support that.

So then if society can handle us as it has done for thousands of years across many cultures in the past then why is it YOU can't deal with us? What is it about YOU that is so fragile, so weak, so pathetic that our existence causes such stress and fear and consternation?

If so many can get along fine without any problems what is it about YOU that is so vulnerable to our existence?

Standard theory suggests you either struggle to maintain heterosexuality because the option of transgender is too atractive to you so you have to try and stamp out that taboo distraction or that your own desires to be that taboo is the problem and you must strike out and and hurt those who do what you dare not as a way to reinforce your own self-repression.

But you suggest thats not the issue, so then what is it?

If your not craving 'girlie-man' sex or to wear fishnet stockings and pink panties then what is YOUR PERSONAL problem that you cant handle our existence when many others can?

Sure there are others who hate like you, but there are racists in the world too but that doesn't validate their views.

So what is so weak and pittiful about you that you cant live and let live? Why cant you go on about your own life? What need are you fullfilling by trying to condemn the Ethical actions and words of others?

"That's all it fuckin is. Society wants engineered men and woman to go out and be drones and create families of more drones. How the fuck can they do that if they are aberrant faggot hedonists and selfish deluded girlie men?? they can't!"

Sheesh dude. Straight cis-folk can just keep living their straight cis-lives making babies without any interferance just cause their nextdoor neighbours are 'girlie men'. So unless your saying that being a 'girlie man' is sooooo much better than being a straight cis-person that society will stop breeding or unless you think that straight cis-folk will lose all their women cause they will be busy chasing after all the 'girlie men' then you've got nothing to worry about!

Oh and as for the 'environmental toxins cause it so we need to stop people transitioning or otherwise we'll have no new generations' claptrap.. talk about stupid! If your issue is with the environmental pollution then become an environmentalist and complain about the pollution! Meanwhile the still-minority can be happier when they have the freedom to transition and once you clean up the environment there will be less in the next generation.

Simple! So if so why waste your time dealling with a symptom when you could be dealling with the problem! So unless it's just an excuse go do that then.

Lloyd Flack said...

battybats,

Zoe named him Yosemite Sam because of his hilarious spluttering rage. He has not given any name. We had to call him something.

The question is just what is his problem? We were thinking Nacissistic Personality Disorder. However I beginning to think he could be an untreated schizophrenic. Any beliefs are probably mostly rationalizations for his spite.

Boo said...

If he had just included one more "fuck" in that last response, his argument would have been much more convincing.

Zoe Brain said...

Another commenter on another post kindly referred me to this article at Ignatius.com. It's worth a read in the current context.

Legal Eagle - when, or if, to intervene is a knotty problem. Milton Diamond's essay on the subject covers the issues rather well, and I recommend you read it.

My own views are too coloured by my own experiences, and those of people I've met, to be objective. I do counsel young transitioners to consider letting puberty develop enough to store gametes before going onto gonadotrophins, but it's their decision. Those who don't do this are both sociologically, psychologically, and physically normal and healthy, with none of the usual psychic baggage that transition even as early as 25 inevitably brings.

Over in Thailand, I met a girl who had genital reconstruction the day before her 18th birthday. Her mum and I got on very well, same generation, same basic values. Ok, politically I'm Right, she was Left, but that's trivial.

Her daughter was a "classic primary", no doubt at all. But what those kids who are merely gay? We do have to be very careful that we do nothing that can't be reversed before age 14.

Lloyd Flack said...

Zoe,
Could you put up a link to the DES study. As far is I can see it is really the smoking gun.

Lisa Harney said...

Huh, I was hoping there'd be a lot of discussion about treating trans children at a young age, but it's instead mostly a lot of derailing by a troll shitting the place up. Sorry Zoe. :(

BTW, this:

My son isn't TS (Thank You God)

disturbed me a lot. I mean, okay, I can understand not wanting your son to deal with being trans, and of course he isn't. But what disturbs me is that not being trans is worthy of thanks to God, which makes me wonder what being trans is worth.

Anonymous said...

A number of studies (and interpretation) are discused here:
http://www3.telus.net/des1/

The earliest DES article I could find:
Yalom ID, Green R, Fisk N. Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1973 Apr;28(4):554-61. "Prenatal exposure to female hormones. Effect on psychosexual development in boys."

Review article:
JM Reinisch, M Ziemba-Davis, and SA Sanders
Psychoneuroendocrinology, January 1, 1991; 16(1-3): 213-78.

A good explanatory text (studies with rats and BPA):
http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/NewScience/oncompounds/bisphenola/2003/2003-0411kuboetal.htm.

David

Lisa Harney said...

I've been reading the article, and I have a hard time with the writing. Hanna Rosin seems to think that girls are boys and women are men and vice versa, and this is intensely disrespectful.

I'm also extremely doubtful of Zucker's outcomes. he's using reparative therapy on trans children to force them to be cis, and this can't help but cause massive harm to them - especially when they're denied necessary early treatment, forcing them to go through puberty and increasing the overall costs of transition to go along with the emotional damage.

Zoe Brain said...

Lisa, the article is already 5 pages long, so no doubt has been heavily edited. It's written by someone "on the outside" so to speak, and in language that outsiders will understand, language which causes my teeth to grate, but may actually be better for communicating to a wider audience.

Moreover it's balanced. It's not saying "X is the truth". It's saying "Some people say X, some people say Y, here is some of the evidence". It's not written to argue a pre-conceived idea.

I argue pre-conceived ideas in my articles all the time. I came to those ideas by looking at the evidence, and so I state why I came to those conclusions. I do this because there is a veritable tsunami of opposing notions that I must fight against, those notions not bothering with any evidence to back them up, just raw emotion and often hatred.

If I can't have a selection of different articles, each giving different viewpoints and the evidence for them, I'd rather have one article that attempts to give all sides of the picture.

If I'm so very, very right - as I truly believe I am here - then my ideas could stand a little criticism. I must always hold myself open to the possibility that I might be wrong.

Now not only do I think I'm not wrong, I think that harm is being caused to children by those whose ideas differ from my own. As does Yosemite Sam, by the way. Where he and I differ, is that I won't ignore inconvenient evidence, I won't automatically dismiss different ideas from my own, but will try to evaluate them on their merits. I might even change my mind, I have been known to. When the facts contradict my opinions, I change my opinions.

Oh yes, I try to be polite too, to respect others, regardless of whether we differ or not.

Zoe Brain said...

Lisa - as regards being happy that my son isn't Trans - in today's society, with people like Yosemite Sam around, some of them in senior governmental positions... I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

It's a mixed curse. You get some spectacular blessings, but it's not an easy road. Please, not my little boy, I love him far too much and want to protect him.

I'm not sorry for my life's experiences. I am intensely glad that I didn't have a crystal ball though, and know what I was in for. I'm not sure that if I had a "do over", I'd have the courage to go through it all again.

I can think of no way of altering history that would lead to my son being born, without me being either a different person, or as I am now. Any alteration to give me XX chromosomes, and he can't exist. Any alteration to give me a male mind, and I can't exist.

One of the main arguments for my change being "conversion syndrome" is the fortuitous timing. I had a son, as I'd always wanted. He was 3, just weaned, and the disruption of childbirth over. 2004 was the absolute earliest I could have transitioned in my whole life, and still had a family. I transitioned in Mid 2005...

I still think it's likely genetic.

Zoe Brain said...

Lloyd - re DES.

Most of the original links are broken, but here's a second-order one. Prenatal Exposure to Diethylstilbestrol (DES) in Males and Gender-Related Disorders: Results from a 5-Year Study Kerlin S.P.

July 2005
Paper prepared for the
International Behavioral Development Symposium 2005
Minot, North Dakota
An earlier version of this paper was presented at
E.Hormone 2004, New Orleans
http://e.hormone.tulane.edu


That paper is The Presence of Gender Dysphoria, Transsexualism, and Disorders of Sexual Differentiation in Males Prenatally Exposed to Diethylstilbestrol: Initial Evidence from a 5-Year Study

Paper Presented at 6th Annual E-Hormone Conference, New Orleans, October 27-30, 2004

Christine Johnson's Environmental Hormonses and Gender is an excellent PowerPoint presentation on endocrine disruptors in general. It was given at the 22nd Annual International Foundation for Gender Education (IFGE) Conference April 5, 2008

This is a fast-moving subject, with most of the work quite recent, and the data still coming in.

sumptos devil s advocate said...

Hey, those studies were replicated.

Hey, what about those that think they were just girls all their lives? How do we know for certain that a particular person's brain was feminized? What cautions can be taken to ensure that the person's brain was feminized?

Natalie said...

Yosemite Sam must care about this an awful lot to be spending so much time writing enraged things.

I wonder why? Perhaps he has a repression of transgender, or maybe someone close to him was trans. I don't really know any other reason why someone would go to so much effort to post these things. SOMETHING must have affected him personally to make him act out like this.

Lloyd Flack said...

Natalie,

I suspect that transexuals are merely targets of opportunity. He seems to be permanently enraged and is looking for someone who he can rationalize as being appropriate targets. Why? I don't know though I have made some speculations. He migrated to this blog from another blog where he was frothing over goodness knows what. I think the reasons that he gives are merely rationalizations for his hate. I think its true source is elsewhere.

Boo said...

Huh, I was hoping there'd be a lot of discussion about treating trans children at a young age, but it's instead mostly a lot of derailing by a troll shitting the place up. Sorry Zoe.

Ok, so restart the discussion. What's your opinion?

I say, yay making kids happy and boo (lower case) making kids miserable.

Zoe Brain said...

Please remember - Yosemite Sam is not a lab rat to be analysed. Neither is he a figure of fun, a mere comedic cartoon.

He is a human being. One who doesn't just have issues, but a lifetime subscription. If we are to speculate as to his mental health, or the reasons for his bizarre behaviour, it must always be with the aim of helping him.

Can anyone here imagine what it would be like to live in a head like that? To be the kind of person who could write such things? He's not unintelligent, he looked up the NARTH site, he has basic internet skills. He has some insight into what makes people tick, how to push buttons to inflict maximum pain. He knows this, he's proud of it, and it must frustrate him terribly to be confronted with someone who isn't affected by it.

If he healed, he could genuinely help others regain their mental health too. He'd have a talent for it.

If he healed, we wouldn't have to wade through the mire to glean the few good points he makes, the issues that need addressing. He would be taken seriously, his ideas not dismissed out of hand as mere ravings and striking postures.

If...

I wish I had the psych knowledge to help him. I don't though, so all we can do is try to stop laughing, and realise he has a serious problem.

Zoe Brain said...

boo - I think my 12:57 post in reply to Legal Eagle said it all. I'd be interested in others' views though.

sumptos devil s advocate said...

Did you know read the narcissists-suck blog? If he's a narcissist, then he will (almost) always be a narcissist.

Anonymous said...

See how unpopular the posts where I don't comment on are? 4 comments.... lame.

You know what crazy fetishist faggot lying about your biology.... I'm sick to death of you. You're fanatics. Stay away from kids. And you're not real women, never will be. I'm not leaving for any other reason than I'm bored with you... and it's time time to move on.

My next target will be a lovely little gay marriage blog. I'm not telling you where it is... because I don't trust you to not ruin my fun.

I'll be easing into it this time, slowly building trust and then BAMMM! revealing what they face.

It's gonna be a laugh riot.

Thanks for the lulz you pack of rabid freaks!

And Alan, you will not live to see sixty the way you are going with your own self harming.

Stay away from your kid. And you didn't answer my question about your kid's so called intersex birth defect? You never even ansswered that question you stupid old man.

I'm off to remind some confused faggots they have no evidence they were born that way and that they are a threat to the family.

Aberrant faggots are a real problem. Imagine an aberrant faggot who also worked for an arms manufacturer? that's a triple threat!

Bye bye cheap imitation women. Enjoy your psychotic wasted lives.

You're a disgrace to both your real gender (men) and a disgrace to the gender you are posing as.


Yuck.

The main reason I have to leave is because I am having nightmares about Alan's face and what he is doing to his poor kid.

Remind me never to go to Australia... the shrimps on the barbie might be amputated trannie cocks.

Battybattybats said...

"Please, not my little boy, I love him far too much and want to protect him. "

Just don't ever tell him that. As it was just one off-the-cuff remark by my mum when I was around 11 about how the lot of transexuals was so terribly sad that had me clam up and take till I was in my 30's to come out to her.

"Please remember - Yosemite Sam is not a lab rat to be analysed. Neither is he a figure of fun, a mere comedic cartoon."

That's a very good point. I am sorry.

'Yosemite Sam' as you have been dubbed. I apologise for my lack of compassion.

Lloyd Flack said...

I think Yosemite Sam just showed I was right. He was gloating about the hurt that he anticipates causing. The hurt is the thing, transsexuality is the excuse.

I think he is leaving because he realizes that he can't hurt anyone here. In fact I think he is frightened of two of the commenters. I think he is frightened of Bad Hair Days. She invited him to come around an play. He did'nt.

I also think he was frightened of me. He avoided commenting on most of what I wrote. Having known Zoe well over a ling time I was in an unassailable position to give thelie to all his speculations.

Anonymous said...

Remind me never to go to Australia... the shrimps on the barbie might be amputated trannie cocks.
Uh uh. It's not the barbie you have to worry about. It's the Sunday Roast

Anonymous said...

Ok you glad handing predictable cunts... speculate away.... speculate and please yourself with your alleged bullshit.... did it ever occur to you that maybe you're just no fun? maybe you're just boring neurotics who only sparked my interest because you sparked my disgust?

The disgust remains. The interest doesn't.

Correlation doesn't imply causation.

Boo said...

You all suck!

I'm going to leave!

You all suck!

I'm definitely going to leave!

You all suck!

See? I'm leaving now!

You all suck!

Ok, now I mean it! I'm out of here!

Wait, first let me say you all suck!

So now I'm definitely going!

Cause you all suck!

So this is it fr'reals! Me leaving now-now!



Zoe, can you bring up the house music for this clown?

Lisa Harney said...

Zoe,

and in language that outsiders will understand, language which causes my teeth to grate, but may actually be better for communicating to a wider audience.

One thing that would truly help trans people is to present them as their true sex/gender, not their sex assigned at birth. I don't know that the insistence that, for example, the titular girl's life being discussed as if she's a boy helps explain that she's not a boy.

As for Green's study as to whether those 44 were trans or not... I'm not sure how that's presented as conclusive. Were there further follow ups? I mean, I know many trans women who knew at a young age, but ended up repressing it into their 30s, 40s, and 50s. I don't think Green's study only finding one in 15 years is really conclusive. None of them were raised in the gender they wanted to be as children, and as I'm aware - and I assume you're aware - society does its best to try to beat that out of us.

That last paragraph isn't directed at anyone.

Lisa Harney said...

Oops -

What I meant asking about thanking god, is it "Thanking god he's not trans," or "thanking god he doesn't have to put up with what trans people have to put up with," which you answered, thank you.

Lisa Harney said...

Zoe,

Also, were you aware of this article?

It's really vague in some ways and written for the casual reader, but it links to an extract from a textbook that covers it in more depth.

Battybattybats said...

As concern over potential reproductive capacity is listed as a concern regarding use of hormone blockers how far away is cloning from being able to be used to enable reproductive capacity for those who never go through non-artificial puberty?

As the possibility/probability that this may be a feasible option in the future should be a factor in considering whether progressing with natural puberty and it's increased difficulty transitioning and high chance of severely increased distress is worthwhile to gain a capacity for unassisted reproduction.

Especially as storing reproductive material will be beyond the means of many of these children meaning they will either be condemned to a number of years of additional dysphoria just for the chance of finding a reproductive partner or many will transition fully anyway post puberty without reproducing but now with the increased transition difficulty.

However as there is a significant chance that there is a geneticly inheritable predisposition towards transgender (not just transsexuality as I've encountered numerous anecdotal reports of crossdressers discovering brothers, cousins or parents secretly crossdressed too) then reproductive rights become a serious issue.

For example having legal rights for transexuals based on sterilisation as it is in some countries could be considered genocide as well as a coerced abuse of the individuals reproductive rights.

Anonymous said...

Wow, that has to be the most batshit troll I've ever seen. Someone should record a dramatic reading of what they are saying - it would be hilarious.


Also, I find it rather interesting to compare early feminism to the current trans movement. There's definitely some good trans critiques on ethics, epistemology, science, religion, the trans body, intersectionality, and civil rights popping up everywhere.


I'm hoping to be the Great Ethicist, but we'll see what happens.


Cheers, and keep up your good science work! We need you!


-A perhaps nicer anonymous

Anonymous said...

Furious gay trans man here. From my earliest memories, I wished I was a boy and wished I had a penis. During puberty I felt horrible guilt because I wanted boys, wanted to dominate and fuck them with a penis I didn't have. I thought that if I was "really" supposed to be a boy, I would desire girls, and I had no interest in girls at all. Yet since I was (still am) so masculine, and was assigned female at birth, I was told that I was just a "lesbian in denial". I have what I call "phantom limb syndrome": feel like I have a dick, but I don't. I recently learned that I was born intersex. I was denied growth hormones and shot up with estrogen as a very short, very angry, and very masculine "girl" who felt like a boy who wanted to top other boys. It is now twenty years later. I have gotten top surgery but am denied testosterone due to liver failure from drinking myself into a stupor for over fifteen years because of my gender issues. If not for my boyfriend, a cis bisexual fem boy who does not doubt my gender, I'd sooner be dead. I still feel this way sometimes, and I am so jealous of trans kids today who get to do what I can't. I also wonder if gay trans boys and gay trans girls growing up today are as confused as I was due to the ridiculous conflation of gender identity and sexuality. I hope that they don't assume, as I did, that they weren't "really" their chosen gender just because they were attracted to boys and felt male, or were attracted to girls and felt female. Signed, sad trans fag.

Zoe Brain said...

Anonymous - I'm so sorry that was done to you.

I guess all we can do is to make sure it doesn't happen to others.

To let them know that some boys look like girls, either born that way or made that way out of well-meaning ignorance and arrogance.

That some boys like other boys, not girls.

And that some boys are both. That it's OK, it's the way they are. Those who are uncomfortable, even miserable, looking like who they're not should be able to have that changed.

I wish I could do somethong for the boy you were. Or the girl I was for that matter.

I can't. But we can do something for other boys and girls in similar situations now. I find helping them is good therapy. Healing.