Sunday, 14 June 2009

The Enemy

Yes, I'm not Gay, but The Enemy makes no distinction. And there are many reasonable human beings who disagree with me - but they're opponents. No, this is The Enemy, who says I'm not human.


Lloyd Flack said...

I am very careful about making comparisons to Nazis. They are made so frequently and carelessly that most of them are meaningless. In this case his attitude to homosexuals appears to be similar to Nazi attitudes to Jews. He sees them as sub human.

And this choice to see them as sub human is a choice to suppress empathy and moral consideration when dealing with them. And that is exactly what evil is, a failure to take moral considerations into account when they can and should. His choice is simply evil.

SnoopyTheGoon said...

A stupid, but scary mofo, I have to say.

Zoe Brain said...

Any bets he doesn't think much of the Joos too?

pe1biv said...

@Lloyd; In regard to 70 years ago you did forget to mention us Lesbian and Gay people and besided us, those who were mentally not on the 100% scale, travelers and and several more groups....

And though he only talks about Lesbian and Gay, he most likely did forget mentioning trans....

Obviously someone preaching the love of Christ, but who doesn't have a clue what that love was; acceptance and respect.. He simply doesnt have a clue.

Yep; het stance is clearly that "teaching children acceptance corrupts them, as it is much better to hate those who are different". And we think as humans we are civilised.... Nah! Those idiots clearly show we're not even close to!

Anonymous T-Girl said...

Hivemind / Lloyd.

Whenever something like this gets brought up at somebody's site, i'm torn between expressing my atheist thoughts on what i believe to be the real root of all evil, and not wanting to offend people i respect that 'believe'.

So as far as this goes....yeah.

Hivemind / Lloyd.

pe1biv said...

@Anon. T-Girl: I'm pretty sure I'm there with you as what is the real root of all evil...

Zoe Brain said...

Sorry, I know far too many Christians - as opposed to "Christians" - to believe that.

Some of whom have saved lives, and financially helped trans and other people who they don't even know.

People who don't just "get it", they "live it".

The only thing is - I believe that they'd be exactly the same no matter what religion they did or did not subscribe to.

Anonymous T-Girl said...

My experience has been different.

'Christians' outnumber Christians so completely that the ratio is all but meaningless.

But then again, the United States of America really knows how to put the 'fun' in fundamentalist dogma.

pe1biv said...

'Christians' like in the video would have gladly been a member of the inquisition if they would have gotten away with that these days.

This does not exclude many people from calling themself Christian who are good people and do good.

Nicole said...

Zoe & others,

The word "christian" doesn't also mean "good". I mean dictionaries don't use it as a definition of the word "good".

Which leads me to my next point. This fruitcake is acting with malice. He is evil. Most other christian people don't act with malice and therefore they are not meaning to hurt others. But their blind faith, their unquestioning of their leaders and the dogma they peddle leads to suppression of people, diverse people of all descriptions.

I really don't believe there's a hell of a lot of difference between what this guy is saying in order to influence others of his intelligence level, and the leaders of the various religions who preach hatred and intolerance to more mainstream society.

Do I need to remind people that the Catholic Church made a pact with the Third Reich and then handed over records of those within their flock to assist the SS with their identification process?

[ [i]Source: "God Is Not Great, How Religion Poisons Everything" by Christopher Hitchins, Chapter 17 pages 275 - 303[/i] ]

pe1biv said...

Nicole, did you notice his collar?

Nicole said...

Yes I did.

What I'm saying is that many Christians would distance themselves from this guy but they may as well not because by blindly following their other leaders they are allowing similar (not as "in your face") hatred and intolerance to be preached.

Emelye Waldherr said...

The dehumanization of a hated minority or group is step #1 towards creating the conditions for violent oppression and murder. It's Genocide 101 stuff, what this person is preaching. I hope I read the expressions of many of the people behind him correctly when I surmised it was all they could do not to plainly roll their eyes or laugh out loud at the wingnuttery.

I wish more of the testimony were available so we could perhaps see if anyone there rebutted his hatred. After all, he did make it too easy.

Yuki Choe said...

I can only absorb few things from this guy. He is anti-english, so bad that he does not know what pedophile means. He is anti-science, since he claims opposite of what science has explained. He is definitely not anti-hetero sex; he seems so obsessed with it. I would not want such a man who only thinks of woman as sex. Oh, he is also anti-pastorhood. And being so, he has become an anti-Christ.

Christine said...

..."Ice cream is pedophilia! You take chocolate chips and chocolate chips and it's pedophilia! Oh yeah.. and whales are space ships!"

Laserlight said...

Nicole, can I say "Many transsexuals are not whores, but they might as well be, because some of them are and the rest are not speaking up against it"? Or is stereotyping only okay when it's applied to a particular group?

pe1biv said...

@Laserlight; Nicole was not generalising, so why do you have to go that way then?

Laserlight said...

AnonT, regarding "the United States of America really knows how to put the 'fun' in fundamentalist dogma": Before you come down too hard, may I suggest you talk to the victims of the Khmer Rouge, the Maoist purges, the Soviet engineered starvations, the genocides in Armenia and Rwanda and Sudan, the Cleansing of the Highlands, the Mongol massacres in Russia and Poland and the Middle East, the pogroms, what Arabic and Pushtun and Vietnamese women used to do to captives ... need I go on?

Laserlight said...

pe1biv, if Nicole was not generalizing, then I also wasn't. My comment was purely an analogy from "many Christians would distance themselves from this guy but they may as well not".

Nicole said...

I am talking about those religious people who blindly follow their leaders.

Anonymous T-Girl said...

i kept getting caught wearing women's clothes as a child.

As a result, i was endlessly beaten and starved by good Christian soldiers in an attempt to drive out 'satan's influence'

Funny how the default christian response is, 'well *i'm not like that. My church is different.*

You're right. Your group hasn't achieved holocaust level behavior yet, thanks to the church / state wall. That *is* some victory to rub in my face, isn't it?

By all means, see how far you'll get rationalizing your irrational beliefs to me.

Laserlight said...

if the default response is "we're not like that" rather than "yeah, I'd've beaten you too", doesn't that indicate that they agree that what was done to you was wrong?

Zoe Brain said...

For those who see Christianity as the Enemy:

1 Corinthians 13

1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

I try to live by that. Imperfectly, I know.

Yes, many who profess Christianity do not. But many who profess secular humanism don't either. We allow ourselves to be easily provoked, to think evil when none exists. To be UnCharitable.

There's a good case to be made that certain sects that call themselves "Christian", certain pastors and churches, are inherently Evil. To be charitable, "Misguided", but I think it goes beyond that for some. They use their religion to justify their hate.

That happens in all religions, and for those who profess no religion, the same kind of people use political belief, or philosophy, or cultural tradition, or any other convenient excuse.

None of this invalidates the ideas that are behind these religions, or philosophies, or political beliefs, or cultural traditions. They must all be judged on their merits, not how they have been perverted. And some should be judged harshly, as they either encourage such perversion, or are inherently evil.

Not Christianity though. There's too many counter-examples.

We who have been subject to injustice and persecution have less excuse, not more, to be unjust and to persecute those who do not deserve it.

So please, no more indiscriminate Christian-bashing. Let us discriminate and only hold to account those who deserve it. Else we are no better than they are.

Anonymous T-Girl said...

"They must all be judged on their merits, not how they have been perverted. And some should be judged harshly, as they either encourage such perversion, or are inherently evil."

"Not Christianity though. There's too many counter-examples."

We use the exact same yardstick. But come up with completely different answers.

You say some engage in 'indiscriminate christian bashing'. i say some engage in blind apologist behavior.

At any rate, there's no point to this. i'm not going to argue with you in your house.

And when people start quoting scripture from their book, it arrogantly presumes to have relevant meaning and authority to a non-believer.

i'm out.

Zoe Brain said...

As I've stated repeatedly, I'm not a Christian.

I also quote Zen. I don't care who or what the source is, just the worth of what's being quoted.

I'm sorry I've hurt you. You have been badly mistreated by some, and here I am defending those who profess to belong to the same group.

I'm just asking that issues, and people, be treated on their individual merits.

pe1biv said...

A lot of wrong (to other people) is done by people who do not do so out of faith, but when the wrong is done by people of faith, it tends to be a magnitude more severe and done with a lot of passion.
I have no statistics, but what I have seen my perception is clearly that the doing people wrong out of faith is much more prevalent.

Yes, also a lot of good is done by people of faith as well as people not in a religious denomination.

If I recall abuse I have seen to myself, and that is just minor, I have to say that compared to the people telling me I will be going to hell for being a lesbian and slapping me with Bible texts by far outweights non denominal people making sneer remarks.

So, I'd say for me it's just a conclusion based on what I have seen.
It's not giving any judgment about people of faith in general, though the conclusion might well be drawn that some religious organisations seems to have doing harm to anyone not adhering to their dogma as policy.

Laserlight said...

pe1biv, you are more likely to take action if you care about something and believe you're right. "People doing wrong out of faith" is going to be more prevalent regardless as to whether their faith is "My political party must win" or "My ethnic group or gender is naturally superior" or "I need to make a profit" or "everyone must conform to my preferred behaviour".