Tuesday, 28 February 2012

Religious Dogma based on Scientific Ignorance

"The Earth is Flat, therefore it's OK to be cruel"

That's what the article Restricting Activities of Transgender Church Member | Ask Our Experts | Church Safety says, in effect.

Chromosomes are the structures on which the genes are carried, which, in turn, are the mechanism by which hereditary characteristics are transmitted from parents to off-spring. An individual normally has 23 pairs of chromosomes in his or her body cells; one of each pair being derived from each parent. One pair of chromosomes is known to determine an individual's sex. The biological sexual constitution of an individual is fixed at birth (at the latest), and cannot be changed, either by the natural development of organs of the opposite sex, or by medical or surgical means. As a result, a sex change operation cannot affect a person's true sex.

Taking things one at a time:
One pair of chromosomes is known to determine an individual's sex.
Counterexample: J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2008 Jan;93(1):182-9
A 46,XY mother who developed as a normal woman underwent spontaneous puberty, reached menarche, menstruated regularly, experienced two unassisted pregnancies, and gave birth to a 46,XY daughter with complete gonadal dysgenesis.

The biological sexual constitution of an individual is fixed at birth (at the latest)
Counterexamples : Bone marrow-derived cells from male donors can compose endometrial glands in female transplant recipients by Ikoma et al in Am J Obstet Gynecol. 2009 Dec;201(6):608.e1-8 & Transplanted human bone marrow cells generate new brain cells by Crain BJ, Tran SD, Mezey E. in J Neurol Sci. 2005 Jun 15;233(1-2):121-3 :
These show that a bone-marrow transplant recipient's entire bodies gradually become genetically identical to that of the donor due to cell turnover. Even the brain. Even the reproductive glands.

The biological sexual constitution of an individual... cannot be changed... by the natural development of organs of the opposite sex
Counterexample : Imperato-McGinley J, Guerrero L, Gautier T, Peterson RE. Steroid 5alpha-reductase deficiency in man: an inherited form of male pseudohermaphroditism. Science 1974 Dec 27; 186 (4170): 1213-5
In an isolated village of the southwestern Dominican Republic, 2% of the live births were in the 1970's, guevedoces (actually male pseudohermaphrodites). These children appeared to be girls at birth, but at puberty these 'girls' sprout muscles, testes, and a penis. For the rest of their lives they are men in nearly all respects. Their underlying pathology was found to be a deficiency of the enzyme, 5-alpha Reductase.

The original question:
A man who has surgically changed his gender to a woman is active in our women's ministry activities. Church leaders are increasingly uncomfortable with this arrangement because most of the women in the church are not aware of this person's true gender. Could we be exposed to legal risk by restricting—or even excluding—this person from women's ministry activities?

"This person makes us feel uncomfortable - can we safely shun and exclude them"? The "Church Leaders", not the congregation, are looking for an excuse. A perfect example of Lack of Charity.

1 Corinthians 13:2
2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.


Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Have you considered using quamtum computeing for your Genetic Algorithm. It is very fast and has more ways to calulate.


Zimbel said...


I don't think that quantum computing is far along enough to help; my understanding is that most quantum computers are tiny (only a few qubits), have serious coherence problems, and are mostly experimental. Even if there is a quantum computer that can solve a problem faster than a non-quantum computer, one would need to look at the problem-solving method again; the most efficient way to solve something linearly is not necessarily the most efficient way to solve a bounded error, quantum, polynomial time problem.

Anonymous said...

RICHARD HAMMAR does NOT know what he is talking about. Hammar if citing from the Corbett vs Corbett decision of 1970 which is outdated and has been subsequently found to be filled with errors.

Anonymous said...

Richard Hammar shows sign of his being affected with homochromosexuality LOL. Does anyone else here know what that is?

donated dignity said...

Richard Hammar pro-gay? because if he is going to go by chromosomes it would be nice if the XY born females with gonadal dysgenesis and a uterus go to his church with XX women and try to get married or if he would marry XY men with XX men since he attributes chromosomes as true sex. LOL.
Or what if a transsexual happened to be an XX male. Then he would need to encourage SRS because from his statements the chromosomes being XX mean that even with a penis and testes he is a she according to chromosomes.

Lloyd Flack said...

Sigh! The genes are the building instructions not what was built. The chromosomes are the folders that the instructions come in, not the instructions. Neither has a sex. What has a sex is what is finally built.

Sex is determined by a number of traits most of which take values on a continuum. There is no sharp dividing line.

Zoe Brain said...

Surprisingly, no comments are being allowed on this article.

M Italiano ,MBBS (AM) said...

Loyd is correct.
Maybe the posts here will
come up on Google

Anonymous said...

The examples of XX equaling female and XY equaling male are simplistic. It the sort of education high school students have, but I understand we have tertiary education to expand our knowledge to beyond that of high school.

Such as many people who go to church now used to go to Sunday School, and I'm sure they'd not expect of receive well Sunday School lessons in church, as their knowledge of the subject has grown.

But for some reason when it comes to things they have little or "high school education" knowledge of, they wish to apply that level to situations that require much more education to understand.

Get the ministers who have concerns to talk to me, I have much more education in sex than any high school student, and all Sunday School pupils, and most church goers. I can educate them if they're wiling to learn.

Anonymous said...

Lloyd Flack, you're almost right. :) Chromosomes are carriers of genetic material, made of DNA. And they do not have a sex, as you say.

I am particularly interested as SOME XXY men say they're not really male, and some even say they're Transsexual and justify their Transsexuality by being XXY. I'm at a loss to understand that. I see no association between being XXY and being Transsexual. Just as I see no association of being XY or XX and being Transsexual. But the folklore genetics remains firmly in place. Even those who are Transsexual really don't want to understand genetics any more than Church goers.

Anonymous said...

richard hammar is not putting any additional posts there. doesn't he seem to be tring to ignore facts by his censorship?