Friday, 28 May 2010

The Frequency of Intersex

From How sexually dimorphic are we? Review and synthesis Blackless M, Charuvastra A, Derryck A, Fausto-Sterling A, Lauzanne K, Lee E. Am J Hum Biol. 2000 Mar;12(2):151-166.: (PubMed URL)
The belief that Homo sapiens is absolutely dimorphic with the respect to sex chromosome composition, gonadal structure, hormone levels, and the structure of the internal genital duct systems and external genitalia, derives from the platonic ideal that for each sex there is a single, universally correct developmental pathway and outcome. We surveyed the medical literature from 1955 to the present for studies of the frequency of deviation from the ideal male or female. We conclude that this frequency may be as high as 2% of live births. The frequency of individuals receiving "corrective" genital surgery, however, probably runs between 1 and 2 per 1,000 live births (0.1-0.2%).

This figure - quoted by Anne Fausto-Stirling in her definitive work Sexing the Body as 1.7% - has been criticised on the basis that the definition of Intersex should be more restrictive.

From How common is intersex? A response to Anne Fausto-Sterling. Sax L. J Sex Res Aug 1 2002 :
Subtracting these five categories--LOCAH, vaginal agenesis, Turner's syndrome, Klinefelter's syndrome, and other non-XX and non-XY aneuploldies--the incidence of intersex drops to 0.018%, almost 100 times lower than the estimate provided by Fausto-Sterling.
Of course most people would consider that a girl born without a vagina (vaginal agenesis) is Intersexed. And so is someone born with neither the 46XX chromosomes usually found in women, nor the 46XY ones usually found in men, but 47XXY ones. But it's necessary for political reasons - Sax is over-sensitive to the fashionable RadFem denial of sexually dimorphic characteristics - to reduce the figure. But his critique hasn't been used the way he intended. Instead, the Unscrupulous have battened onto it like leeches, as is their habit. Hence this little gem from the Hate Group, the Traditional Values Coalition: Homosexual Urban Legend Exposed.
Leonard Sax has stated the obvious about Fausto-Sterling’s views. They are bogus and based upon flawed research, bad definitions, and inflated statistics.
Yet, these are the statistics quoted by Time magazine and promoted by the Intersex Society of North America in its campaign to normalize what are, in fact, birth defects.
Intersex Activism Is Part Of The Homosexual Revolution
You can see why they richly earn the sobriquet of "Hate Group".

Oddly enough, I can see where Leonard Sax is coming from. Because he believes, as I do, that there are innate differences between the way men and women think. His website - although flogging his books with the verve of a Saudi member of the Ministry for the Suppression of Vice and Protection of Virtue - is quite informative.

I just see that while there are two distinct sexes, there's an area between, neurologically and anatomically, where things are not so straightforward. Someone can be neurologically usual, but otherwise anatomically unusual, or the reverse. It's by studying these people - like myself - that we can learn more about the extremes, and what causes them. And it's by realising that Male and Female are really, really good approximations, but there are few (if any) people who are total stereotypes of either that we can learn to treat people as individuals. By all means have separate-sex classrooms, for many that will be appropriate. But consider that for some it's not, and for some it is appropriate for some areas of study, in others not. Biology drives all of this, but Biology is messy and fuzzy and multi-variant.

Hence back from science, through politics, back to science again.


Graeme Stephen Tucker said...

Graeme Stephen Tucker
Zoe, Your an Idiot and in fact you are not an Intersex person at all. Your a delusional liar and your hiding behind the fact that your faking as an Intersex because won't admit upfront that you had a sex change and that your in reality a Transsexual. Your just a delusional transsexual who is nothing more than an Intersex wannabe and a FAKE.

Anonymous said...

Let us accept the proposition Zoe is a liar for a minute.
OK fine. But is she not still doing a great service for the TS/TG and IS comunities?
Hasn't Zoe been on the front lines of this war for our rights for years now?
I doubt she is a liar but I do not care if she is. That would just indicate a denial problem of ZOE'S not ours. If it is true she is lieing how does that change anything in the long run. Accept Zoe is not going away, she is out here fighting for our rights in the best way she knows how, by writing one hell of a blog and by being involved with some of the scientists doing the research we need done.
Back off Zoe dude! She is worth 5 of you.

One of Zoe's friends and ardent suporters.
A friend.

Lloyd Flack said...

Goods and Services Tax,
You are the one lieing about yor identity. We recognize you Nicky and you are an idiot to think that renaming yourself will fool anybody. Zoe please boot this twit off.

Zoe Brain said...

I was thinking of doing a special article about Nicky, man of a thousand identities.

Not a post, an info page, a collection of his musings on his genitalia, his nappy fetish, the various death threats he's made, his claims to being variously afflicted with Klinefelter or Kalman syndrome at different times... but I've had professional advice that he's more dangerous, and more insane, than the standard NetCook. He's genuinely psycho, this isn't an act by a troll.

I'm glad he's on another continent.

Anonymous said...

I say expose the idiot. Real name real city of residence all that. I am sick of him.

Valerie said...

"Male and Female are really, really good approximations...."

I love this, and it totally works for my conception of gender-as-two-party-dominant-system.

Zoe Brain said...

He lives with his parents.

His name is Nick K Chaleunphone

127 Roosevelt St
New Britain, CT 06051-4119

(860) 827-0107
Age: 30-34
Nikhom N Chaleunphone,
Bounthavy D Chaleunphone,
Boone C Chaleunphone

So there are innocent parties involved. I'd take a very, very dim view of any of them being hurt. Him too. He's sick. For goodness sake, have some compassion.

I wouldn't have put the data up unless his name was so well known. And the rest of the data so easy to find that it was futile trying to conceal it. Took me 20 seconds.

My own is even easier, of course.

If I can put up with him... please can't you? I don't want to push him over the edge, there's too much "justice" in the world without mercy.

Anonymous said...

Graeme Stephen Tucker,
I am not that Nicky Character. I am Graeme from New Zealand. Here Is more proof on Zoe's false Intersex claims
I'm not Bonkers, Reality is. I think.
Picture proof

Lloyd Flack said...

Nicky we've see you pretend to be someone else before. No one who knows you is fooled.

Prof Italiano said...

The info. from bodies like ours is not proof at all that Zoe is not intersexed. There are alot of conditions that can cause adult onset feminization in a phenotypic male. Remembering even my most basic discussions with Susumu Ohno, aromatase causes the conversion of androgens to estrogens. The Sertoli cells which are rich in aromatase are in the testis sequested in the seminiferous tubules so that usually don't have contact with the androgen producing Leydig cells. However, many things can happen in adulthood where this barrier is disrupted resulting in dramatic feminization. What anonymous has described (pic and all) is likely to be the result of
one of these factors with resultant feminization from the endogenousy produced estrogen when compared with the feminization that is commonly observed in a transsexual of that age in the same time frame.

Anne Rose Blayk said...

I've noted that whenever a person (like, say, Nicky) makes a statement of the form: "I am a true _______", one can usually expect the following statement to be comprised of outrageous bigotry and misrepresentation of a party (or parties) who are deemed to be... "untrue".

"I am a true {intersexed person, transsexual, patriot, Christian, intellectual}."

"So-and-so is {an intersex wannabe, a sex-obsessed autogynephile, a crypto-Communist, under demonic possesion, a paid shill}".

-- Anne

Zoe Brain said...

Prof Italiano - since Nicky doesn't know the difference between Klinefelter and Kalmans, and believes that any IS condition must make you sterile, I think your words are going over his head.

He is mentally unable to process any data that conflicts with his world-view. He doesn't "pretend" to be GST from NZ, he *is* GST from NZ, or someone else from France, or a "Woman born Female" or whatever sub-persona he adopts at the moment. MPD.

He's also intelligent, with a deep sense of personal ethics and responsibility, just tragically ill.

While it's not pleasant having him cyber-stalk me, it keeps him out of harm's way, and stops him from damaging some vulnerable people.

Anne O'Nonnymouse said...

Looks like our favourite troll was first to make a nasty comment on Gina Wilson's presentation on intersex at TEDxSydney:

Zoe Brain said...

Yes, he goes after all Intersexed people. Gina Wilson. Sophia Seidelberg. Anyone who tries to make the situation better, to educate and inform. Usually after creating a sockpuppet account or three. Not the usual troll truck to maintain plausibility, but one for each of his sub-personas. He is totally obssessed with it.

John Lambshead said...

Dear Zoe
So you are XXY - interesting. I knew there were XYYs.

I'm a professional biologist. There are male pattern brains and female pattern brains, which are mostly found in men and women respectively but not exclusively (there are also intermediate brains). This has no impact on sexual identity/orientation except that it does seem to affect job choices. Not enough people have been tested to get any statistical power though.
John Lambshead
PS Engineers and scientists seem to have male pattern brains.

Zoe Brain said...

Hi John - no, I'm not XXY - or at least, my bone marrow isn't. Nothing so prosaic. It would simplify things if I was, and explain a lot.

No, this one's Idiopathic. We can observe the effects, but still are only guessing as to causation.

We've run a number of experiments, but apart from the fact that my whole cholesterol metabolism isn't quite the normal variety, we've made little progress. Apart from eliminating all the common causes.

It's still possibly a combination of late onset CAH plus AIS, but that wouldn't explain the metabolic meltdown in 2005.

So we're managing things symptomatically.

As regards Male vs Female brains - the brain is a complex structure, not so much one organ as a number of them. TS women appear to have feminised lymbic nuclei and corpus callosum, *but* many have anomalous amounts of grey matter elsewhere, "more male than male". It's not as simple as "male" and "female" brains, though that's a good approximation for most purposes.

This would be consistent with the high numbers with ASD, and the "concentrator" pattern, where so many are scientists or engineers.

Please have a look at the posts under the References and Brains tags. We're starting to have a reasonably good handle on this. The only areas that are still terra incognita are in the Transgendered as opposed to Transsexual area. There's been no research on those who aren't obviously TS.

Graeme said...

Actually I'm Graeme Tucker, and I'd like to concur with all those who find the poster claiming to be "Graeme Stephen Tucker" is in fact Nicky the Bigot, otherwise known on YouTube as KamodoDraGoon

Apparently I've upset KamodoDraGoon so much he wants nothing more to do with me. Every time he claims to be Intersex I tell him he's not, that Kallmann syndrome is not an Intersex condition.

So when I get my hands on him for impersonating me I'd like to put him over my knee and give him a good spanking (and considering his diaper fetish he might even enjoy it?)

I don't join groups using my full real name, big mistake that Nicky, better luck next time! Possibly you can pretend to be "Ivan the Terrible" or "Catherine the Great", they're bound to not pop by and discover your ruse! But it does look like you've been pinged!

And for the record I am XXY, I am from New Zealand. And did I say "Greetings everyone?"

Graeme said...

Are video responses allowed?

Anonymous said...

Nick you fail so badly you made lots of amateur mistakes

you didn't change your writing style you used someone middle name


Anonymous said...

To do with the topic, the frequency of Intersex. I've recently had contact with CAH support Org and their webmaster insists that CAH is not an Intersex condition. He has a pretty good argument too. But there are certain types of CAH that are listed in medical books as a Disorder of Sex Differentiation, which is exactly the place in those books where Klinefelter syndrome is found. Not Kallmann though, Kallmann syndrome is a Disorder of Puberty, nothing to do with sex differentiation. Kallmann people are male and female respectively.

The same is true for CAH people, they are male and female respectively. Some of the females are over virilised but still female. And males with CAH have no signs of feminisation at all.

Also, I have discovered, there are AIS women, that's Androgen Insensitive women, XX chromosomes, not Intersex just female. Most of these women do not even know they are AIS as they have no symptoms I'm told.

For XXY guys, well we're not all males, there are a few XXY females, fertile females who are SRY Negative, (I thinks that how it's said), meaning the male determining factor on the Y chromosome doesn't work, these women are effectively XX with an inactive Y, and they're very very rare. There are also XXY females who have had sex assignment surgery in infancy but are female and transition, or better put, reverse to what they naturally were. However MOST XXY's a phenotypicaly male at birth and have no ambiguity of their genitalia. They look male and are male in their minds, for the most part. Some phenotype XXY males choose to identify as female, take estrogen see themselves as female, I know of two like that.

I think that information throws any notion of being able to precisely point to the incidence of Intersex in the world population into jeopardy, it simply can't be done. The incident rate is variable. IMO.

M Italiano said...

Hi Anonymous, I agree that Kallman's is not intersex. There is an article around mid 2001 that described the co-existence of Kallman's and transsexuality. It is not the first paper to do so.
It is interesting that it has been described as a disorder of puberty.
Even if it only manifests at puberty (I think it manifests earlier than that) it doesn't mean that it is an intersex condition.
I don't like the term DSD, but I don't think that Kallman Syndrome
(secondary hypogonadism with anosmia) even fulfills the criteria for DSD.
In fact, Kallman Syndrome involves an altered pathway of the migration of neurons involving the hypothalamic and pituitary axis. Transsexualism
likely involves this as well.
Therefore it is not surprising that
there have been reported links.
Interestingly H-Y Antigen had been linked to the etiology transsexualism and had been mapped to Xp22.3 (short arm of the X chromosome at the 22 band and at the .3 region) and so has Kallman's.
I do think that CAH XX individuals who have ambiguous or male genitalia are intersexed. There is a current report in Arch Sexual Beh that has a case of an XXY female who is gender dysphoric in the sense that this person identifies as a man.

M Italiano said...

Hi John, I think it depends on whether we are talking about basal areas (hypothalamus, amygdala, the BSTc which is actually the extended amygdala) or "higher" cortical areas. I do agree that the sample size needs to be increased. It could be a local basal area alteration.

Graeme said...

"Hi Anonymous, I agree that Kallmann is not intersex. There is an article around mid 2001 that described the co-existence of Kallmann and Transsexuality. It is not the first paper to do so. It is interesting that it has been described as a disorder of puberty."

First off I wrote the Anon bit, I was using a different E-mail and I didn't want to be here under more than the two names I have already. :)

It's not "has been described as a Disorder of Puberty" it IS a Disorder of Puberty. There is also a late onset variation where puberty begins then fails, but it is still a Disorder of Puberty. It is Infantilism. Therefore it is a Disorder of Sexual Development, no doubts there. And I get my information from Williams Textbook of Endocrinology 8th Edition Chapter 22 pp 1174-1176

Of course there's no reason to assume that someone with Kallmann syndrome can't have some other disorder as well, EXCEPT Klinefelter syndrome. Someone with Klinefelter may have the genes associated with Kallmann but causing Anosmia, but someone with the Anosmia and XXY would never be described at a Kallmann male but a Klinefelter male as Klinefelter's is characterised by elevated LH & FSH and Kallmann with absent or decreased LH & FSH.

So the next question is "Is it possible to be XXY have normal LH & FSH have Anosmia and be fertile?" And the answer is YES that is because not all persons who are XXY have elevated LH & FSH, that is we don't all have Klinefelter syndrome. XXY and Klinefelter syndrome are used incorrectly interchangeably.

So, getting back to Kallmann people, can any be Transsexual, of course they can, just like any person who is XXY can be Transsexual. Can a person with Kallmann have CAIS, I do believe so, two ways in which a Kallmann person can have an Intersex condition as well. However a person with CAIS and Kallmann would not take testosterone as they'd be insensitive to testosterone. Therefore the only way our friend Nicky can be Intersex is if he's Transsexual, now isn't that ironic! :)

Damn I g forgot the rest of what you said, get back to you later.

Graeme said...

Interestingly H-Y Antigen had been linked to the etiology transsexualism and had been mapped to Xp22.3 (short arm of the X chromosome at the 22 band and at the .3 region) and so has Kallmann.

Hi M Italliano (did I get that right?)

Yes, there are now 8 separate genes associated with Kallmann syndrome I'm told, by the Kallmann people (except Nicky, he knows NOTHING). I think it's described as Autosomal recessive and X linked. It is a very interesting disorder, fascinating even, much more interesting than Klinefelter's syndrome.

It does manifest itself prior to puberty but that manifestation is so subtle it's almost never picked up prior to the expected onset of puberty, which in most Kallmann people fails to begin.

However all is not lost, if they take a drug called Pregnyl, which to the best of my understanding mimics LH & FSH production, their gonads start functioning, and they can father or conceive a child, or more than 1.

So for someone like Nicky, if he spent his time trying to understand Kallmann syndrome and stopped trying to make it fit into a grouping it has no place in, he could actually be fertile, actually have a family without too much difficulty and actually lead a relatively normal life.

M Italiano said...

Dear Graeme, Of course Kallman's can be listed as a DSD in some texts. In fact, transsexualism is also listed as a DSD. See this link
at bottom under unclassified forms of DSD.



46,XY gender identity disorders

Male to female transsexualism

I agree with you that XXY does not equal Klinefelter Syndrome. The Dx of Klinefelter Syndrome requires the establishment of the clinical
findings as described by Dr. Klinefelter. XXY is very common, but there can be variable karyotpes. I learned this from Dr. Arthur Robinson when I considered
a PhD with an ABMG specialty in clinical cytogenetics. But PhD lab directors don't make a patient diagnosis as the lab test is just one measure. Now with regard to XXY and transsexualism, it gets tricky. For instance, the DSM IIIR
used a physical intersexed condition such as CAH or a sex chromosomal "disorder" such as XXY as an exclusionary criteria for transsexualism. Furthermore, according to the DSM IV TR, noone gets diagnosed as having transsexualism. People get diagnosed as having gender identity disorder (GID). Again, it depends on what book is used and what label people give. In the first case one cannot be transsexual and be XXY and in the second case one can't have GID and be XXY. The label that somoene in the second category would need to have is GIDNOS for a gender identity disorder not otherwise specified. I would get rid of all of these pejorative labels and its associated pathologization. I yield to the fine belief of many members of OII who continue to strive for this. As far as Klinefelter's and Kallman's, we need to ask another question.
Can an individual have BOTH hypergonadotropic AND hypogonadotropic hypogonadism?
Can there be at the gonadal level a tubular dysgenesis which is seperate from a
co-existing altered migration of hypothalamic-pituitary neurons that induces secondary hypogonadism?
Again, just as we can't rely solely on karyotype to diagnose Klinefelter Syndrome, we can't rely exclusively on FSH and LH levels to diagnose Kallman Syndrome or Klinefelter Syndrome. A syndrome is not an altered system or model in and of itself
(or asome would say a pathogenic model).
We even hear nowadays of Kallman's without anosmia, so again it all depends.

M Italiano said...

Dear Graeme, In regards to your second post, new genes are found all the time. There can be little doubt that at least one X linked locus resides at Xp22.3 and likely involves DAX1 either directly or indirectly. As for Pregnyl, I would prefer to administer a bioidentical gonadotropin releasing factor. In the archives of Sexual Behavior article that I mentioned, it was noted that a 23 year old patient "felt like a girl since early childhood", with "hterosexual interests absent", and with the absence of puberty "at the age of 15 "engaged sexually with older boys" and "began crossdressing". After GH treatment, and "A 17 year follow-up" showed a "persistent absence of transsexual symptoms" and "lived for 10 years in a stable sexual relationship with a woman." Arch Sex. Beh. 2001, Vol. 30(1), page 76.
What (if any) relevance this has for Nicky or any of his aliases, I would not even care to speculate.

Graeme said...

Dear M Italiano
"I agree with you that XXY does not equal Klinefelter Syndrome. The Dx of Klinefelter Syndrome requires the establishment of the clinical
findings as described by Dr. Klinefelter. XXY is very common, but there can be variable karyotpes. I learned this from Dr. Arthur Robinson when I considered
a PhD with an ABMG specialty in clinical cytogenetics."

I am way out of my depth here. I'm not even going to attempt to understand everything you've said. A Rocket Scientist runs this blog and you're a Professor of something and I'm a Gardener. LOL

I talk about things lay people can understand from lay peoples perspectives mostly.

From what you say you should be talking to my Endocrinologist. If I can motivate myself I might get back to you in a couple of weeks after having studied carefully what you've said.

I didn't study for anything under Dr Robinson, I simply read a book he was quoted in and it makes perfect sense to me.

Maybe someone else can pick up where I left off, but there's no way I can continue.

Thanks for the chat.

Graeme said...

Dear M Italiano,

This is the best I can do.

Justine Valinotti said...

Recently, I came across a blog in which the blogger spends all of her time and space denouncing any sort of gender variance as "bogus." She believes that GID was "invented" by a misogynist, patriarchal medical profession to "destroy" butches and other lesbians.

Her answer to everything is "It's biology, stupid." But I don't think she has any idea of how complex and complicated the biology is, as you've shown.

I'm a layperson. So my knowledge is limited. But I don't think anyone will find one "cause" of GID , transgenderism or intersexedness. It seems to me that a number of factors could be involved, and it may take the presence of only one of them, under the right conditions, to make someone intersexed or have GID.

Zoe Brain said...

Justine - "Intersex" is a poorly defined umbrella term. I prefer the definition "having a body neither stereotypically male nor stereotypically female", but others differ, and have good reasons to do so.

There are dozens of causes of Intersex conditions. Some are inheritable and genetic. Others the consequence of exposure of the mother to various mutagens. Many just happen, as the result of spontaneous mutations, events such as the fusion of two foetuses, glitches in cellular replication, and so on.

We know that most, if not all, transsexuals have atypical neuro-anatomy. We can cause just this type of atypicality in experimental animals by comparatively minor changes in hormonal environment in the womb, the kind of thing that *must* happen naturally, and more often if the mother is stressed by disease or environment.

Graeme - strictly speaking, Klinefelters is a collection of somatic anomalies, usually caused by a 47XXY Karyotype. But there are cases of 48XXYY, 47XXY/46XX, and all sorts of combinations - even 49XXXYY.

M.Italiano - as Kalmans is often associated with hypogonadism, I consider it to be IS. Similarly for CAH, as that is often associated with anomalous genitalia. If we start being too precious about this, we can get to Sax's extreme, where he doesn't consider 47XXY to be "really" Intersex.

I've seen some very destructive arguments on IS support groups about some being "more IS than thou". For this reason alone, I don't think Sax's taxonomical approach is useful, not matter how philosophically correct it might be. There's also the problem of having identical somatic effects with different causes, some being IS and others not.

Nicky is best classed as an Internut.

Graeme said...

Hello Zoe, you said "Graeme - strictly speaking, Klinefelter's is a collection of somatic anomalies, usually caused by a 47XXY Karyotype. But there are cases of 48XXYY, 47XXY/46XX, and all sorts of combinations - even 49XXXYY."

I prefer to say "Klinefelter's syndrome is a collection of symptoms indicative of disease" because that's what the word "syndrome" means.

You're quite right with all the karyotypes you've mentioned, and there are a few others too, even circular sex chromosomes! So when it comes to gender and sex chromosomes the variations are absolutely endless, it seems.

So "Intersex" as a word I best understand from horticulture, where it's found a lot, to describe plants that have both male and female reproductive organs on the one plant. So Marijuana is not Intersex but Daffodil is.

But essentially in higher life forms "Intersex" needs to have some aspect of what is normally considered to be absolute male and absolute female in the one individual, which is where things get complicated.

From my perspective Intersex is some form of disease, a medical condition that requires treatment. That except in disease form in humans and animals Intersex does not exist. There are no people who are naturally Intersex that require no medical assistance. There are plenty who refuse medical assistance, but that's their choice and they are choosing an unhealthy lifestyle.

Therefore the only defition of Intersex I will accept is a definition determined by the medical professions.

And the phrase that best suits that definition is the phrase most people seem to want to frown on "Disorder of Sex Differentiation." By taking this stance I am putting myself onside with my Doctors, offside with most other Intersex groups, offside with the largest support Org for CAH people, which maintains NO CAH people are Intersex.

Therefore, Kallmann aint Intersex, because the medical profession says it aint. Some CAH are, most are NOT. Klinefelter males are regardless of their karyoptype or symptoms of disease. Turner women aint in my mind but ARE to the medical profession, as are true hermaphrodites, Turner Mosaic Males, XX Males (Klinefelter's syndrome), persons with 'syndrome of webbed neck' XY Gonadal dysgenesis, various unclassified forms, CAIS, AIS, PAIS and that's about it.

Then come the Trans people, not endocrine related conditions.

So what's the best thing to do regarding the word "Intersex" which as we can see covers such a wide variety of different medical conditions. I say "DO AWAY WITH IT." and replace it with "Disorder of Sex Differentiation"

And then all the other people with Kallmann etc....can be classified as persons with "Disorder of Sex Development."


Zoe Brain said...

A Nose by any other name would smell... unless they have Kallmans of course.

If one is to be picky, I prefer Milton Diamond's "Difference of Sexual Development".

Except I'm not picky. Just a "various unclassified form", I should imagine. :D

I'm more concerned that we get appropriate medical treatment, than the exact nomenclature. Starting with no un-necessary surgery when young.

Anonymous said...

I traded e-mails with Nicky a year ago. I related to him how intersex conditions are relatively common in my blood-line, not always resulting in infertility. He replied, explaining his logic to me 'the vast majority of intersex people are infertile, therefore I know that anyone claiming to be intersex who has had a liar.' The logic flaw is too obvious to expand on. - Tupungato.

Anonymous said...

Ps: Tupungato: My habitual PS: My brother died back in May. We were never really sure whether he (and me as well) had 17alpha hydroxylase deficiency or 3beta hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase deficiency. In his last months he exhibited a symptom alluded to by yourself and disputed by ignorant persons. His body appeared to be rescinding his surgical gender assignment to male. He had one teste and one undescended teste which U.Va. genetics thought was an ovary. His external male parts were shrinking and being pulled back inside. In his last months, his nurses would sometimes comment that they could not tell whether he was male or female. This hurt him as he had a strong and exclusively male identity. What little I know of your situation sounds similar to this. - Tupungato.

Zoe Brain said...

Sorry for your loss.

One possibility is 3BHSD (rather than 17BHSD). That screws up the whole hormonal system.